UK blogging: cliques and changes
Yep – yet another article about blogging by some blogger. What do you expect?
There has, however, been a noticable shift in the Britblogging world over the last few months, and one which could yet spell big changes for the way the place operates. Noticable, but at first almost imperceptible and quite hard to put your finger on; so – I hope – worth highlighting:
In May, in the first post on this blog, I said that the hope for The Sharpener was that it would “feature people with a broad range of political opinions and writing styles and, through them, act as a conduit for blogging thought and debate”.
A couple of months later Rafael Behr, at the Observer’s now defunct blog, wondered (hoped?) whether “the conversation between and on British blogs could evolve in different direction [to the American route]. One that is, for want of a better word, more polite.”
I then echoed his sentiments and reiterated the aim of this place: “When we started setting up The Sharpener, one of the prime concerns was to try and foster civilised discussion among people with often vastly different political opinions. Rather than childish name-calling and hissy-fits we hoped for rationality, and rather than straw-man distortions of others’ points of view, we aimed to have genuine debate.”
Yet back in February I was not overly impressed with the British blogosphere (still for want of a better word), stating that I hoped us bloggers might start “acting a tad more constructively together to build up proper online networks and sensible debates, but it has to be said that from what I’ve seen so far I’m not too optimistic.” The next day, Martin Stabe – in a now widely-quoted piece – noted the differences between the British and American press (basically the British press has obvious and declared bias, while the US press claims objectivity, meaning there’s more to attack the US press about) and how that might impact on British blogging.
The one similarity between the US and UK (political) blogs that Martin didn’t really mention is that we all like to attack (often only perceived) inaccuracies in the mainstream media (again, for want of a better term). Fisking – the point-by-point rebuttal or demolition of an article by a newpaper columnist in an attempt to demonstrate how little they know and, in so doing, how much better the blogger in question is than the person being “fisked” (and yet paid for their writing), is an ongoing obsession on both sides of the pond.
The basic thing is, us bloggers often write because we feel ourselves to be at least as good, if not better, than those who are regularly paid to churn out comment pieces in the press. Blogging is in part a reaction to the perception of the relatively closed-circle clique of the press, to the apparent nepotism that sees relatives of established journalists get newspaper jobs while genuinely good and insightful writers (of which we could all name examples in blogland) fail to get picked up, and to the perception that the press doesn’t always cover our own particular obsessions in the kind of detail we’d like (hence, perhaps, the large number of “libertarian” bloggers).
Those earlier musings on the nature of British blogging came shortly before Tim Worstall started his weekly Britblog Roundup and long before he got some of us published. Especially since the Britblog Roundups started, we’ve all doubtless become aware of a broader circle of UK blogs and opinions. But still – has that much changed?
———–
In compiling his book, billed as “a comprehensive round-up of the way the blogging community covered the major events of the year”, Tim says he looked at 5,000 blogs of the c.300,000 that are UK based (a very conservative estimate – others have put it nearer 900,000) – and yet only 106 are featured in the finished product.
I tend to have a look at the same 20-30 blogs each day, with a core of 10 or so that I always read.
On The Sharpener, we currently have 24 active contributors, to the extent that to add many more could threaten to overwhelm the place in a classic too many cooks scenario – even though there are plenty of very good bloggers out there whom we have yet to invite (although our desire to maintain political balance means we’re slightly constrained).
This is an inevitability – it is simply not possible to read every blogger or every blog that is produced, not even if you just focus on the cream of the crop. If an average blog post is 200-500 words, how many can one feasibly read in a day? Especially if the inconvenience of work and the real world gets in the way. Likewise, in a 266 page book, it would be impossible to feature many more blogs than Tim managed to squeeze in without severe editing of the entries and dilution of the original quality.
———–
What this tends to do, over time, is create more and more of a closed circle. The better – or simply more popular – bloggers end up reading each other and linking to each other and, increasingly, finding themselves less able or inclined, due either to time constraints or the knowledge that their current blogrolls contain enough good people to find most things so they shouldn’t be missing much, to pick up on newer blogs. Equally, the more people that link to you, the harder it is to notice new ones, or new good ones – especially as the likes of Technorati and the other blog search engines are currently having so much difficulty in keeping up to date and accurate.
For the really established bloggers – the likes of Atrios, Kos or Instapundit – even attempting to dig out new regular reads amongst the clamour of more recent additions becomes such a hassle they have apparently all but given up on updating their blogrolls (although smaller blogs will occasionally get a look-in in posts, especially at Instapundit). I’m almost at that stage myself – the blogroll’s got out of control and needs pruning, plus now that I’m aware of hundreds of blogs, rather than the grand total of zero that I knew of when I started, it is incredibly hard to remember which of the new finds are actually worth revisiting, and so blogrolling. Often I’ve started reading a blog regularly, but taken months to add them to the blogroll as I assumed I must have done already – and I know I’m not the only person this has happened to.
The only way for newer bloggers to get attention (and so involvement in the various debates and the ensuing traffic) from the more established lot seems to be to be nice to the people better/more popular than you in an attempt to leech off some of their glory, or attack the people worse/more popular than you in an attempt to get recognised for the genius you are. So every now and again, once you’ve been blogging for a while or have gained a certain amount of Technorati-based respect from your blogging peers, you’ll find yourself faced with a troll flaming you in the comments, or someone on another blog posting critically about something you’ve written on yours – both in the hope of getting noticed.
This tactic occasionally works – some of the newer blogs I’ve come across in the last six months or so I first discovered thanks to their authors being twats in my comment boxes or elsewhere (and I probably did the same myself a couple of times when starting out). As they start getting more traffic they usually seem to calm down. Higher up the Technorati ranks in the UK blog world it’s really only the “pro-war left” lot who still seem to go in (and be considered legitimate targets in return) for outright abuse and hostility – the rest of us seem to be keeping it calm and rational.
———–
This is, of course, what I was calling for all those months ago. But now I’m not so sure. Is anyone else getting at all concerned that this whole British blogging circle is almost becoming as incestuous as the bloody papers?
Especially since Worstall’s book, which only featured about 10-15 blogs I’d never heard of despite his very best efforts to trawl far and wide, I’ve been suspecting that it’s becoming a bit of a closed circle. I can’t think of (m)any genuinely good new bloggers that have caught my eye in the last few months, and all my regular reads pretty much only link to all my other regular reads. Newer bloggers who regularly read my stuff my start resenting the lack of reciprocal linkage and attention. (I know how they feel from when I started out – and most bloggers on this side of the pond still know how they feel from the lack of any kind of attention most of us receive from US blogs. I’ve used this phrase before somewhere, but it seems as hard for a British blog to break America as it is for British bands.)
The main worry, though, is that I’ve now met a fair bunch of bloggers in the flesh – including a load who politically I doubt I’ll often agree with (our man Blimpish, Scott Burgess, Peter Briffa, the man Worstall) – and every time there’s been this basic level of “Lo! Fellow blogger! Hail, fellow, well met!” where you end up being really nice to each other and finding lots of things to agree about, showing our various political opinions to be rather more moderate and flexible than may necessarily appear on our respective blogs.
Add the Sharpener’s deliberate attempts to foster some kind of cross-opinion dialogue to that, could we soon be heading to a stage of everyone (at least at the middle-to-top end) in the UK political blog world having, *shudder*, mutual respect and stuff? Could we end up having a situation where, on UK blogs, apparent vitriol between bloggers is usually little more than the ongoing Sunday Times Jeremy Clarkson / A.A. Gill abusathons, where friends viciously slag each other off as an ongoing injoke? Are we going to end up with primarily mock-flaming, rather than the real thing?
Our own Jarndyce has suggested – in an email, kind of proving the point that a clique may be developing – that us bloggers “all share some fundamental values: commitment to free speech, political wonkery, scepticism of those in power, a certain degree of intellectual rigour, and so on. So, we probably have a hell of a lot more in common with the blogger next door with hateful views than we do with the patrons of an average pub.”
If this is the case, are bloggers beginning to get out of touch with the rest of the country, as suggested recently by DoctorVee? If us bloggers start seeing ourselves as having things in common, or as being distinct from – say – the regular press, regular political activists and the like, does this not mean we are also going to end up isolating ourselves from the regular British public?
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This is the main concern. If we all start meeting up in the real world and communicating via email rather than just comment boxes etc, is this likely to turn us all into some kind of nepotistic clique in just as bad a way as the mainstream press (pretty much) is? This whole obsession with ID cards, 90 Days etc is a prime case in point – in some areas it’s already almost turning into a Britblog hive mind…
Judging by UK blogrolls, a pictoral representation of the world of blogs would probably end up as an insanely complex Venn diagram. But are there a bunch of blogs which don’t appear in any of the overlaps – autonomous blogging sets where people are carrying on very different debates to those most of us seem obsessed by?
In other words, is it really the case that the only area in which the UK blogging world has a major, unbridgable split is over Iraq, as it often seems? Or is there another section to the British political blogosphere where there are far more divisions and heated debates that none of us have yet discovered because we’re all collectively just reading the same group of a hundred or so blogs all the time?
Are we becoming just as clique-ridden and unable to understand what’s really important as any of the people we criticise? And if we are, won’t there be a need for a new group of bloggers to rise up and start criticising us lot? After all, we must be to the national newspaper columnists just as insignificantly irritating as the trolling new bloggers who occasionally crop up in our comments sections.
If so, is this likely to be good or bad? If it’s only the smaller or more mental bloggers throwing their shit around, is that going to make blogs as a whole more appealing or less? Is rational debate between bloggers who show mutual respect most of the time actually going to find an audience, or are the more insane insult-hurlers simply more entertaining? And if we do all show each other respect, and get to know each other better, will this make us all less likely to criticise and correct our fellow bloggers when they – inevitably – sometimes cock things up?
As Jarndyce recently noted, “Bloggers were supposed to subvert* and engage the traditional media, the dead trees, the MSM, the legacy media, etc. etc.  on our terms, not as preening supplicants”. To do this we surely need to maintain independence – not just from the “MSM”, but also from each other.
We all started blogging as individuals, as independent as you can get. Now that inter-blog, cross-party networks are beginning to grow in the UK political blogosphere, we may be able to make our voices heard more by acting as a group – but are our individual voices and opinions being drowned out in the process?
are bloggers beginning to get out of touch with the rest of the country?
No. We’ve always been out of touch with the rest of the country.
The main worry, though, is that I’ve now met a fair bunch of bloggers in the flesh and every time there’s been this basic level of “Lo! Fellow blogger! Hail, fellow, well met!†where you end up being really nice to each other and finding lots of things to agree about, showing our various political opinions to be rather more moderate and flexible than may necessarily appear on our respective blogs.
Ha! No! As some of the Edinburghers could tell you, I’m happy to get on with people, but if I think they’re wrong, I for one will tell them (and get heated about it! The phrase “you pusillanimous, colonial cunt” has passed my lips at least once in debate…).
But, yes, you’re right about reading the same bloggers most of the time; are we essentially stagnating? Possibly, although all those things that I was angry about when I started, I am definitely still angry about…
I have contemplated trimming my blogroll, and may well do so, I think. Adding the “Required Reading” roll was an attempt to do so without offending anyone too much. I have to say that I read most blogs through my RSS feeder, and have added a couple more today for the first time in weeks.
I think that it would be quite fun if a new crop of blogs did start flaming us, and we could have a massive blog war, casualties dropping left, right and centre. Would that spur us on to write more urgently? Who knows: perhaps we will only know when it happens.
Good post though.
DK
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Nosemonkey – you need some blog history lessons – try starting with the seminal text from early 2003 – Power Laws, Weblogs, and Inequality…
;p
Could it be because British news stories have, of late, been something that most British bloggers actually tend to generally agree about? Even our last remaining “ID cards are a good idea” holdout seems to have accepted logic. Something similar has happened in Germany too, where despite a new government and the first female, Eastern Kanzlerin, it was so interminably dull, I couldn’t bring myself to even comment about it. Sorry Nosemonkey, will try better to maintain German specialist status on your blogroll, but it’s bloody difficult when the government is both the main parties. Okay, they’re equally useless. But the top news story here for a whole ten day was whether they were going to refer to Merkel as “Frau Kanzler” or “die Kanzlerin”. I needen’t tell you that on the day of her finally taking over the news report called her “Frau Kanzlerin”.
As an interesting sidepoint, Mark Holland has an interesting post noting the number of UK bloggers that went to public or grammar schools – a discussion I’ve had privately with a blogger once or twice now. Could it be that we’ve self-selected on other grounds. I’ve been asked, apropos aof nothing if I went to Harrow by a commentor (no I bloody well didn’t, bunch of self-important twits). I do roughly estimate that well over half the political bloggers on my blogroll didn’t go to a comprehensive school. Could it be that the British blogosphere is recreating the elitism in British society.
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my guess would be that roughly half of the people who will ever have weblogs, have them and that’s why you’re not finding as many new blogs as you used to.
Are we going to end up with primarily mock-flaming, rather than the real thing?
Oh, I hope so. I don’t know about anyone else, but I’ve done real flaming – I’ve flamed and been flamed, and it’s not an experience I miss. As a blogger (which I’ve only been for a few months) I work on the basis that no flames is good flames. I could read Tim W and Scott B and get my blood pressure up – I could even read Harry and Norm and really get my blood pressure up – but really, what would be the point? (This is also why I never, ever post about Chomsky, although sometimes I’m mightily tempted. Thank the Lord for Oliver Kamm. No, really.)
If we all start meeting up in the real world and communicating via email rather than just comment boxes etc, is this likely to turn us all into some kind of nepotistic clique in just as bad a way as the mainstream press (pretty much) is?
[…]
Are we becoming just as clique-ridden and unable to understand what’s really important as any of the people we criticise? And if we are, won’t there be a need for a new group of bloggers to rise up and start criticising us lot?
I’ve got a story about this. I used to be a regular poster to a Usenet group called alt.folklore.urban. The long-time regulars there set up a mailing list; it was semi-public, so an invitation to the list was seen as a great honour. Time passed and new posters came along, in some cases becoming more prominent on the group than some members of the list. Eventually somebody took the initiative to set up a second list, ‘honouring’ some of the new generation. Time passed and new posters came along… and a third list was set up. In both cases, incidentally, the members of the new list drifted away from the group in the same way that the members of the first list had done. There may have been a fourth or even fifth list set up after that, I don’t know – they don’t talk to us if so (I’m still on lists 2 and 3, although (not unusually) I don’t look at the group any more).
Back in the blogosphere… yes, we were the new generation. No, we’re not any more. Yes, there will be a new new generation… and so it will go on, at least until everyone loses interest in blogging.
are there a bunch of blogs which don’t appear in any of the overlaps – autonomous blogging sets where people are carrying on very different debates to those most of us seem obsessed by?
The current Britblog Roundup suggests that this is almost certainly the case – Natalie’s found quite a few bloggers that were new to me. Probably just a coincidence, but I did notice that quite a few of them were differently gendered from me and thee, Clive.
And, looking at the roll of Sharpener contributors as a microcosm, I can think of quite a few areas of the political forest that are underrepresented:
– Feminists
(see above re GURLS hem hem)
– Tree-hugging veggies and no-globalists
(JimB and JimG are probably closest; they’re both a lot closer than me, anyway)
– Libertarian capitalists
(OK, bad example – we do visit them, we just don’t invite them back)
– Party-political hacks of any stripe
(I can only think of a few I ever visit – mostly Lib Dems for some reason)
– Blairites, Brownites and DecentLeftists
(although see above re: blood pressure)
– Think-tankers and quangocrats
(some of them are perfectly sweet when you get to know them)
– Radical Web designers
(complete this sentence: “Don’t mention the UK edition of Wired in front of ______!”)
Lots of overlap there – groups 4 to 7 form a kind of chain – but probably not all that much overlap with our circle[s]. And no real reason why this should bother us. It’s a big blogosphere.
Maybe the UK blogosphere should seek out new sources of disagreement and discord, to boldly flamethrow where no man has before?
I think the EU constitutes an additional source of disagreement alongside the Iraq war. Looking at daft policies such as (this government’s specific proposal for) ID cards is not going to be fruitful: the only point of contention on that matter is over how big a lie one is a prepared to tell or believe to support the Government or the party, not about the actual substantive issue, on which all intellectually honest intelligent people seem to agree.
I think blogrolls are a drag, and would still think so if my blog were linked more prominently on the things. There should be a national blogroll reinitialisation day, for people who insist on retaining them.
Once again, the American blogosphere is way ahead on this. There’s not one, but several cliques. And we baby blogs have several times gone after the Establishment–I myself got entangled in the Kos pie throwing feud, and I consistently poke fun at Duncan (Atrios).
And Phil E, I also wonder where the Gurls are. They seem to be well represented in Parliament; why not your blogrolls?
(As for tree-hugger veggies, my hand is up over here. The one not wrapped around that tree.)
But please, keep the radical web designers away from this place.
I got accused of being a member of the “feminist taliban” on our blog today, so I’m fairly sure that GenderGeek [there are two of us] covers the feminist base.
I also fit into a couple of other categories, but I don’t want to give Andrew a heart attack so I might keep those to myself for now.
Shall we just forget about it all and get on with writing about things that interest us?
Jamie K,
Good idea, bloggers get up off your knees and stop looking at your navels!
“are bloggers beginning to get out of touch with the rest of the country?”
I think most (well at least me) are out of touch with reality.
Robin – please don’t bring Clay Shirky into it. There is no Long Tail, and I’m quite dubious about whether there’s a ‘power law’ (more on this at my other blog).
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Well, the obvious comment is that when you’re talking about “blogs” you actually seem to be talking about “blogs concerned primarily with politics”. I’d guess that a tiny minority of British blogs are primarily concerned with politics. Most Livejournalers aren’t going to be writing about politics or indeed current affairs other than the big events that impinge on everybody’s consciousness (e.g. the tsunami or the London bombings). So when you’re talking about a “blogosphere” clique forming, you’re actually talking about one that’s derived from a much smaller population than c.300,000.
Dear God, what a dull discussion, chaps. Give over!
I think I’ve more or less given up on the ‘political’ blogosphere, except (and this is the important bit) for those I read for their style, rather than political persuasion. I think this is because politics itself – despite ID cards etc – is itself moribund, especially in class or even party terms.
However, this does not mean the death of UK blogging at all. That is because some of the best blogs don’t bother with poltics as such. There really are too many to list here, but various ‘work’ blogs (police, ambulance, archaelogists, musicians and so on), humour (my area), arts, science and so on and on.
Perhaps that may be the big differnce between the US and UK blogs that everyone seems to be searching for, for some reason. The US system/society seems to encourage – at least – the polemical (it is -after all the home of the Mr Angry the shock-jock style of talk radio, while we have Radio 4), whereas the UK – to me, at least – seems to suit the more discursive, the slice of life, or even (Zarqhon help us) the chatty.
So, I think trying to emulate, or re-create, or even merely to look upon the US political blogospere with envy is to chase after the wrong target. We should – if there is anything you could call a ‘we’ here – concentrate on that difference.
I also fit into a couple of other categories, but I don’t want to give Andrew a heart attack so I might keep those to myself for now.
Someone mention me?
The British blogosphere will only have reached maturity when all bloggers acknowledge me as their lord, and start their posts with, “May it please my lord, The Devil…”
So there.
DK
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Gosh, I had not idea it was so vexatiously seethingly complicated.
I thought people just wrote what they felt like, tra la.
Maybe that is because I am a GURL.
*skips off to look at kittens*
It’s ok rachel, you get used to them and their navel gazing… I think it has something to do with the landscape beyond the navel.
“May it please my lord, The Devil…â€Â
Actually, the rather circular and insular nature of the ‘sphere’ does bother me a little, but not overtly. I found some new blogs recently, some of them got blogrolled even, but for the most part I’m pretty happy with the links I’ve got, because they’re the on-topic blogs I read.
Oh yeah; on the ‘tree hugging hippy’ comments; I’m vegetarian, Paul’s vegan, but while it’s important to both of us personally, we don’t talk about it on the blog, because the blog, in theory, has a topic and a theme. Some blogs out there have great content, but aren’t related to what we’re discussing; they’re on my feed list, but not the blogroll. Meh. Navel gazing, irrelevent, but a good post NM.
OK, we need a good argument on stuff we disagree on; DK’s doing good with his stuff on the BNP and the EU. Maybe I should join him given I mostly disagree with him. Thing is, we enjoy the debate too much to start flaming properly, it’s part of the appeal.
on the ‘tree hugging hippy’ comments…
That line could probably have been clearer. Put it this way: if you give me the phrase “The battle for the trees” I can tell you who wrote the book and quote several lines of the song. What we’re short of, it seems to me, are people who would take that for granted and could also tell you where and when the BFTT actually was. (Or, preferably, people who would take that for granted and could also tell you what’s going on now.)
Interesting post and discussion – I think we do need to think about what we are doing, because otherwise all sorts of restrictive habits do grow up.
I think all bloggers share something in common, in that they care enough and are engaged enough in one or more issues to write about it and thus is some small way (at least) campaign to try to change the way it is treated – which is always going to make them a clique to some degree.
But I wonder why this has to be the “British” blogosphere? I haven’t counted my blogroll, but it is probably well over the 300 mark, and maybe 20-30 per cent of those are British, about 50 per cent American (because there are an awful lot of them in the blogosphere), 10 per cent Australian (because I do still have some interest in the old place), and the rest from everywhere from Jordan to India to Latin America.
And while I post often on history and culture, I do also post a lot on politics, and I find that the international perspective can throw up all sorts of interesting new ideas and perspectives. A recent post on menstruation, which was partly history and partly contemporary political comment, drew a huge response from the Indian blogosphere for example, which wasn’t what I was expecting when I wrote it.
But in researching the Britblog roundup – via one original nomination, I also found a whole circle of new British bloggers – mostly Midlands-based – of whom I was unaware. So I’d urge everyone that if they make one new link, follow it up and find where it leads.
An important but overlooked feature in this is the personal history of a blog. In my own experience, TYR developed originally with far more transatlantic and (to a lesser extent) European links than within the UK. Also, it went through a number of phases – it used to be much more blogroll-centric, largely due to my shameless link-whoring. When you are trying to get a blog established, the temptation is to link back reciprocally to absolutely anyone who links or reads your blog, even if you wouldn’t read them in a fit.
I’d also point out that RSS, trackback, and comments are a cause of the decline in the importance of the blogroll. Where once you would have a list of blogs you read, now you add RSS feeds to your reader, and/or trackback them (or leave extensive comments). This is a natural evolution towards a more dynamic/live web community rather than just collecting masses of links. (Although, that said, my own blogroll and RSS feed are in a shocking state at the moment.)
I experimented during 2004 with replacing the blogroll by an “RSSroll”, dumping the feeds from key blogs on my right sidebar in the old blogroll spot, but abandoned the experiment due to the flakiness of the hosted RSS panel (when it wasn’t offline and hence breaking the sidebar, it constantly failed to render long titles correctly).
In a broader sense, may I mourn the passing of SBBS? For good or ill, it did act as a sort of peering interface between the main British blogclans, being the only place where Tony’s Willing Executioners and the Student Stoppers paths crossed in something like good spirits.
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