Little Netherlanders and Islamophobic buffoons

In the eyes of the drooling clowns who use words like ‘dhimmified’ and who believe there’s a serious chance we’ll end up ruled by sharia unless we Lock Up All Ay-Rabs Now, the Netherlands is on the front line in the Muslims’ attempts to destroy the West through excessive breeding.

According to their narrative, the EU constitution ‘no’ vote was a last-ditch cry from the Dutch Volk against evil Brussels’s attempts to fill Holland with Koran-bashing types. This is a little odd, given that the EU forces member states to impose tough restrictions on extra-community immigration (and given that there aren’t actually any Muslim countries in the EU), but it’s important not to overestimate the power of logic when dealing with a Volk.

The analysis on why the Dutch actually voted ‘no’ has been done to death elsewhere. More interesting is where the narrative of “Holland besieged by immigrant plague” came from in the first place. We know who brought it to the fore – a nasty bigot who, largely because he was queer, didn’t get treated with the contempt he richly deserved [*]. But does it have any real-life backing?

Serendipitously, my job last week was to compile statistics about ethnic minority and immigrant populations across the EU. This is harder than it might sound – while the UK has an excellent national statistics office that tabulates the relevant data extremely well and makes it available online for free, most other countries don’t. Some (such as France) don’t tabulate race data at all.

So 4.3% of the inhabitants of the Netherlands are immigrants, compared to 3.5% of Brits, 9% of Germans, and 6.2% of Americans [**]. This could be enough to explain Mr Fortujn’s rise. After all, the UK’s 3.5% concentration has encouraged more knuckle-dragging Neanderthals to support the BNP than would be ideal, as well as encouraging slightly less mental people to oppose further immigration.

It doesn’t, however, explain why the Netherlands is perceived as on the front line of Islamoloonic Badness. Surely Germany ought to be on the front line? And even if you’re mad enough to believe the UK has an immigration problem, there’s no reason to conclude from these stats that the situation in Holland is significantly worse.

As hinted at in the first article linked above, some commentators take a slightly different tack, and suggest that the problems are concentrated in Amsterdam and the other big cities. While the rural Netherlands is still a paradise of clogs, cheese and windmills, the city streets are infested with weird goat-slaughtering men in dresses [***], and therefore decent Dutch burghers feel unwelcome in their own towns.

There could be a serious point here. In the UK, support for the BNP is concentrated in places like Burnley, which are very poor and have high immigrant populations – broadly because it’s much easier to blame the Pakis for your lack of education, skills and employment than it is to do something about your own status. So if immigration to the Netherlands were strongly concentrated in poor, urban communities, the resentment seen (and perceptions that the Muslims are in charge) could partially be explained.

The OECD publishes an annual migration survey, Trends in International Migration (subscription required). It includes a chapter looking at geographical dispersal of immigrant populations, using a measure called the Adjusted Geographic Concentration index. In a country with an immigrant AGC of 1, all the immigrants live in the same place. If the AGC is zero, the immigrants are spread out among the population with no clustering effects. The ‘adjusted’ bit takes into account things like the size of one’s country.

As anyone who’s visited both Burnley and Basildon might have spotted, the UK appears to have quite a bit of immigrant clustering. Indeed, the British AGC is 0.41 – slightly below the heavily US, which has an AGC of 0.44. France, Italy and Spain all have AGCs around the 0.3 mark. The Netherlands has the lowest AGC in Europe: just 0.13. This means that immigrants in Holland are less ghettoised than immigrants anywhere else. And that means that the Burnley theory is simply wrong, and that the people above who claim the big cities are under threat are fools and liars.

Could it be the opposite? While Burnley’s local idiots were out voting for the thugs this May, equally misguided people in heavily white areas such as Basildon were out voting for comedic, white-collar, non-thuggish anti-immigration parties. This isn’t because they’re threatened by immigrants – there aren’t any. Rather, they’re threatened by the idea of immigrants, and haven’t encountered enough real-life ones to realise they don’t pose a threat. They haven’t been to Ealing Road or Stamford Hill; they just know that Weird Things happen there.

The Netherlands’ demography may be such that there actually aren’t enough areas of high immigrant concentration. The foreigners are so spread out that everywhere in the country resembles a giant Basildon, and there aren’t any majority-ethnic-minority areas that people can look at and view as shining successes in the same way that there are in London or New York.

This leaves a sizeable minority of the locals far more paranoid about immigration than they really ought to be, since they fear what would happen should the number of foreigners increase further. These types fall for hysterical lies from the likes of Mr Fortujn, genuinely believing that the Netherlands’ liberalism is under threat from Muslims. And the dhimmi-mongers are all-too-happy to seize on and fuel this paranoia for their own, weird and bigoted ends.

[*] Instead, he was treated with an assassination that he didn’t deserve.
[**] All unsourced data is calculated by me based on national statistics, OECD, UN, EU and published commercial sources.
[***] Not these men in dresses, interesting though the history of the Dutch Scots community is.

33 comments
  1. Katie said:

    What’s really significant is how the rate of integration of immigrants is much much higher in the Netherlands than in many other places. The men responsible for both Pim Fortuyn’s and Theo Van Gogh’s deaths were born in the Netherlands, spoke Dutch, university educated and yet, still, committed murder inspired, ideologically, by a very recent and historically unorthodox interpretation of Sharia law, the Hadith and Koranic teaching.

    That’s what really shook the Dutch: that their system of being liberal, accepting, helping people to assimiliate and integrate and grow as Dutch people at the same time as retaining their own ethno-religious identity has, apparently, failed to safeguard the Netherlands against the “clash of cultures” (man, I hate that term) other countries are experiencing. It’s easier to blame the Other than yourself for the failure of a system.

  2. Bob said:

    The place where I was born, in the east end of London, is now majority Muslim. This was once the birthplace of the 60s culture which revolutionized Britain, and the world. The locals now vandalize churches, and attack the few remaining white residents. Personally, I am furious at the ideology that has permitted this to happen. No, I don’t know what the solution is. No, I’m not about to vote for the BNP. However, this is a real problem, and your whiffling about percentages of immigrant population are utterly irrelevent to the destruction of native European cultures that has and is occuring as a result of that immigration.

  3. John B said:

    How silly of me to try and look at the facts underlying people’s prejudices, when I could have just spouted meaningless drivel about “destruction of native European cultures” instead. Thanks for showing me the light, Bob.

  4. Bob said:

    Yes, what a silly little chap you are, John B.

    I don’t know where you come from, but wouldn’t you be even slightly upset if the people there all left, and were replaced by people of a totally different culture? By people who vandalize the institutions you grew up with?

    I know, I know, only drooling clowns would think like that. What meaningless drivel.

    Well, even though I am pretty much a rootless cosmopolitan right now, there are plenty of people who aren’t, and who do care about these things, who don’t have a voice right now, and are probably not too happy with being called drooling clowns.

  5. There is a third possibility about the dispersal of immigrants throughout the population there in Holland John B. That most Dutch have in fact met immigrants, albeit never in any concentration, and have decided they don’t like them. Reprehensible, certainly, if true, but an alternative to the two options you give above.

  6. John: you gave the numbers on resident immigrant populations, but you said you’d also been looking at ethnic minorities overall – how different are they for the different countries you mention? The other question is, what’s the rate of change? – after all, you’d assume people’s prejudices aren’t formed simply on the basis of historic or present facts, but their expectations also.

  7. Unrelated to the previous comment, but if the Netherlands and the UK are most worried, but Germany and the US have more immigrants, might population density also play a role?

  8. The No vote in The Netherlands (and France) had basically nothing to do with Islamophobia, and very much with opposition to the constitution’s Thatcherite market fundamentalism and militarism.

    Some of the leading Islamophobes in The Netherlands: Immigration Minister Rita Verdonk, Ayaan Hirsi Ali (MP; the Somali-Dutch “Bat Yeor” or “Oriana Fallaci”), Hans van Baalen, Van Aartsen, Boekenstijn, Paul Scheffer, all campaigned to vote Yes in the name of “anti-terrorism”. While progressive Moroccan Dutch, like other Leftists, campaigned for a No vote.

    More on the Dutch vote at http://dearkitty.modblog.com/?show=blogview&blog_id=623095

    And other blogs at http://dearkitty.modblog.com/ under “Politics”

  9. So 4.3% of the inhabitants of the Netherlands are immigrants, compared to 3.5% of Brits, 9% of Germans, and 6.2% of Americans [**].

    Where did you get these figures? How are you defining ‘immigrant’ in this context? Because if you are defining immigrant as ‘foreign-born resident’ (which is the usual way of doing it) then the numbers are significantly higher, 11.1% foreign-born in the US according to the last census.

  10. dsquared said:

    I dunno Pearsall; I’m a foreign-born resident of the UK but I’m not an immigrant; my mother just happened to be overseas when she dropped me.

    For what it’s worth, the little Welsh villages of my youth are now overrun by English expats who have forced the locals out by driving up house prices, vandalised beautiful old buildings and turned the local church into an arts & crafts centre, but I find it difficult to muster the sheer hatred that Bob manages, perhaps because they’re not brown.

    I think Tim W’s version of John’s theory is the right one; they had anti-asylum seeker riots in Wrexham a few years ago. Wrexham did not actually have any asylum seekers resident at the time, just a few poor bastard Kurds who had emigrated for unrelated reasons years previously. But a rumour went round town that they had been zoned for a big AS detention centre and it all went off.

  11. dsquared said:

    (also lots of foreign-born residents in places like the US and Switzerland are expats who have no intention of taking up permanent residence so I think John is right to tabulate them as other than “immigrants”)

  12. “The men responsible for both Pim Fortuyn’s and Theo Van Gogh’s deaths were born in the Netherlands, spoke Dutch, university educated and yet, still, committed murder inspired, ideologically, by a very recent and historically unorthodox interpretation of Sharia law, the Hadith and Koranic teaching.”

    BZZZT!

    WRONG.

    Pim Fortuyn was killed by a Dutch environmentalist, who was afraid that Fortuyn’s election would be bad news for the environment and racial relations both.

    Nothing to do with Muslims, fanatical or otherwise.

    Regarding to diffussion of immigrants; Amsterdam is actually roughly divided 50-50 between etnical Dutch and immigrants and descendants of immigrants.

  13. Lorenzo said:

    Martin, beat me to the most obvious error in your post but I think you enbody why so many of the Europeans that you snear at as buffoons and drooling clowns have turned anti immigrant. Essentially, you seem to be from a school of thought that holds all things immigrant to be under attack deserving of your protection whereas any attemt at protecting European cultures must be inherently rasist . You, therefore, belitle anyone who holds any view in anyway different from your own rather than trying to understand their point of view. This is pretty much how the European politcal elite has treated anyone who deared suggest that, maybe, integration was a good idea.

    The fact that all the statistics tell you immigration is and has been good for Europe is simply not going to impress anyone who you in the same sentence call a drooling fool. You either learn to respect that people have legitimate grievances against immigrants without being wholly beyond redemption or you will ultimately loose this argument.

  14. also lots of foreign-born residents in places like the US and Switzerland are expats who have no intention of taking up permanent residence so I think John is right to tabulate them as other than “immigrants”

    OK, but I’m still curious as to how John tabulated these figures. Is he simply using the foreign-born population that is non-white, or what? I’m not sure how easy it is to break out the expatriate from the immigrant in statistics.

  15. Ayaan Hirsi Ali (MP; the Somali-Dutch “Bat Yeor” or “Oriana Fallaci”)

    Don’t be silly. Hirsi Ali is, essentially, a Muslim version of all those Western intellectuals who have called Christianity on its nuttiness. Bat Ye’or and Oriana Fallaci are, in contrast, to use the technical term, completely batshit crazy.

  16. John B said:

    Lorenzo – what obvious error? Martin pointed out an error in Katie’s comment. We aren’t the same person. Also, why should I “accept that people have legitimate grievances against immigrants”, when I believe that their grievances are at best moronic and at worst racist? I don’t accept that creationists or flat-earthers have a valid point of view; why should BNP voters be any different?

    Pearsall – stats cover foreign citizens, not foreign-born local citizens; presumably the difference for the US is made up of naturalized immigrants (yes, I know this is at best a proxy measure. No, I don’t think this skews the figures overmuch).

  17. Mat said:

    Regarding the Basildon theory, I know that in France this is the case in many villages where the dreadful Front National does really well: they have absolutely none of the North African immigrants they vote against, it’s all pure fear.

  18. dsquared said:

    Hirsi Ali is, essentially, a Muslim version of all those Western intellectuals who have called Christianity on its nuttiness

    Not so much; there was an excellent interview with her in the Guardian a couple of weeks back that didn’t get so much play because it didn’t provide much ammunition for either side. AFAICT, she’s a daughter of a quite important family in the pre-chaos Somali government who would most normally have become a Westernised intellectual. However, she was treated abominably by her female relatives over the matter of her clitoridectomy and has reacted to this terrible event by loudly speaking out in an attempt to try to protect other Somali girls against the practice. Her main point appears to be one against “Muslim culture” rather than Islam itself; although clitoridectomy is not mentioned in the Koran, lots of Muslim scholars regard it (and lots of other frankly disgusting practices relating to women) as sufficiently well-established Muslim customs to be more or less mandatory. Since I’m not an expert on either Islam or Muslim cultures, I don’t have any basis upon which to judge whether she has a point, or whether she’s just extrapolating from a single horrible personal experience (like say, Andrea Dworkin). Either way up, she’s not a loony like Bat Ye’or (as in, she doesn’t seem to believe anything which is obviously or provably false), but nor is she a neutral Westernised intellectual; she’s a specifically Somali-Dutch campaigner. I think Pearsall might be thinking of that American Muslim woman whose name escapes me but who talks about “itjihad” and who fits his profile perfectly.

  19. Katie said:

    Thanks Martin. Must. Google. Before. Commenting.

  20. Monjo said:

    3.5pc of Brits may be immigrants, but something like 19pc of all babies are borne by immigrants
    of course their babies are considered ‘natives’ – the thing is 100 years ago they’d have grown up with the culture and ideals of Britain (and would have kept their religion private), today they don’t.

    BTW US data site link given says:
    White persons, percent, 2000 (a) 75.1%
    well Newsweek the other week put it at 68%! Which is a big change in just five years! Albeit with differing measures.

  21. Monjo said:

    AH! Just saw this stat:
    White persons, not of Hispanic/Latino origin, percent, 2000 69.1%
    Well that explains it, but it is still a shift of 1 percentage point (3mil ppl)

  22. john b said:

    Re “kept their religion private”: yup, I’ve noticed the way that there aren’t any big Catholic churches in Liverpool, or synagogues in Norh London.

    Re not growing up with the “culture and ideals of Britain”: have you actually ever met a young second-generation-Brit, or are you just recycling Daily Mail talking points? At least from my experience, this has no bearing in reality.

  23. Katie said:

    Token France-based comment: you mention that France doesn’t keep numbers on this kind of thing. That is part of a now 100 year old official policy that confuses religion and race (oh yeah and separates church and state leading to the banning of all religious insignia in schools last year) called laicite. This year is the centennial of laicite and this week is the week of laicite (with a series of events including a “republican picnic”.)

    We are apparently all celebrating that we are all very integrated and assimilated by talking about not talking about religion. Everyone’s just plain French in France, no “beurs,” here, no sirree. However, one still must submit photos with CVs when applying for a job.

  24. Monjo – and white persons in the US aren’t immigrants how, exactly?

    Childish point, perhaps, but an important one – the US is not a useful comparison when talking about European immigration – unless you think that the non-white immigrants to Europe are likely to embark on a programme of genocide against the native populations before rounding us up in economically-depressed rural ghettos and occasionally allowing us to run casinos, that is.

    The only viable comparisons that can be made is between European countries. Nowhere else in the world – bar, perhaps, Japan – has got a similar back story. And Japan has both one of the smallest immigrant populations in the world and one of the biggest anti-immigrant tendencies (albeit a mostly non-violent, non-rabid one).

    Xenophobia/racism/bigotry (or whatever you want to call it) doesn’t correspond to numbers – because it isn’t rational.

  25. Anon said:

    I’m a teacher in Bradford so I think I can comment on the situation there. I have never voted for the Conservatives let alone the National Front, yet I know parents of my pupils who have. I also have a minority of Asian pupils, I’ll come to them later.

    For your benefit, know that in Bradford, the schools are either overwhelmingly white or overwhelming Asian. There are few signs that this is changing.

    There is a resentment amongst the white community because it perceives itself as being second class citizens as compared to the Asian citizens. They see themselves are getting all the blame and the Asians getting all the help. Of course this is largely untrue but enough is, to give credence to the falsehoods. Here’s an example.

    Every year I organise tours of churchs, temples and mosques to develop trust. The vast majority of the white children attend all visits. Virtually none of my Asian children visit any religious building except their own. In the Asian parts of Bradford, the schools don’t even bother visiting churchs anymore. I make this observation, because it’s apparent to me that the tolerance is mainly one way.

    The TV program that was postponed concerning Asians attacking White girls is mentioned frequently by parent, not because of the facts in the case, but because the media/government quickly brushed it under the carpet – “they’re never gonna do anything about it”.

    In contrast my Asian youths complain about Islamophobia, yet no one knows anyone arrested for say suspicion of terrorism. The Moslem girls now all wear the veil. Some of this is no doubt because of a sense of community, but I know of two pupils who wear it because of the “risk” (their word) of doing otherwise. The risk does not come from whites.

    What I see here is a community dividing upon ethic religious lines (and there is added complexity from the Hindu, Sikh, Islam mix). The only place similar to it that I have spent time is Belfast, yet I wouldn’t dream of saying such a thing at work. To do so would be too close to Enoch Powell. In fact to discuss any perceived problems with multiculturalism at work is a career limiting decision.

    Ironically, London is very different – maybe the sheer size helps. I don’t know.

    However, I do think that our failure as a country to be able to be able to discuss such matters in a rational intelligent way without resorting to either racism or name calling is an appalling development. The vilification of the Conservative Party by a Labour party, which proposed virtually identical immigration policies is a case in point: Pot Kettle Black.

    Whilst I broadly agree with your article, its tone is completely wrong. If mainstream political parties (and I mean Labour) merely dismiss local concerns as the result of fearmongering, then they will lose the vote in places like Bradford. These people will never vote Conservative and they don’t read the Mail or the Telegraph. Yet the growing perception is that the Labour party (especially at the National level) is overwhelmingly middle class and out of touch.

    Telling someone they are irrational may not be the best opening gambit to prevent them voting BNP.

  26. john b said:

    Anon – excellent comment.

    I suspect London has distorted my views of race relations in the UK, although by the same token I also suspect Bradford is an outlier (compare it with e.g. Leicester or Wolverhampton…)

    Equally, I’m well aware this post won’t deter irrational, ill-informed people who blame the immigrants for all their problems from voting BNP (I lean towards the view that said people probably can’t read, and certainly won’t be looking at political commentary websites). It was more an attempt to see if Dutch racial politics can be viewed using the UK as a guide, with a few well-deserved insults against the racists thrown in largely for amusement value.

  27. Monjo said:

    Nosemonkey: I think you miss the point of my stating the US figures, I mean by your definition everyone in Britain is an immigrant too. It is just a matter of timeframe.

    The thing is the IMMIGRANT numbers may seem small. But immigrants have more children and over a few generations it drastically alters the racial/cultural breakdown of a nation. In just 15 years time, almost 20pc of under-18s in the UK will be children of immigrants; if the US and Germany have similar ratios (based on their current immigrant population sizes) then about 35pc of under-18s in America and 50pc in Germany will be children of immigrants. Now obviously these people are natives not immigrants, but if they are raised and use the customs, language and cultures of their parents rather than of their country then it will have huge consequences.

    The US stat shows just how rapidly (5 years) it takes to see a whole 1pc shift in the racial breakdown of a country. Imagine we shift that to the UK, then in 15 years from now there’ll have been a 3pc decline in the number of whites as a total percentage of the population, and a 3pc increase of non-whites. Over a century this means a 20pc shift. Or by 2100 from 92pc white to 72pc white. If we take a look at France, it now has 6million Muslim Arabs, 10pc of the population, which has been a huge cultural shift since the 1950s.

  28. john b said:

    Be careful before extrapolating too much from an apparent 1% shift in the US white population. The error on these kinds of numbers is significant – especially if they’re not from the same source, and extra-especially once journalists (rather than economists and statisticians) get their hands on them.

    I’m pretty sure there’s no hard or convincing evidence to support the conjecture that France has 6 million Muslim Arabs (or any other number of Muslim Arabs) by the way. That was one of my points in the original post. Although if you do have a link to a credible source, it would be a very major help for the project I’m currently doing at work…

  29. EU Serf said:

    On Pim Fortyn

    Pim was gay, and prominent muslims were making comments that would be very offensive to anyone who was gay. He answered them back.

    I know its not very nice to say some of the things he said, I find it hard to see what else he could have thought in his position.

  30. Sean Fear said:

    Is it “drooling idiocy” to question whether the government’s daft incitement to religious hatred bill would ever have seen the light of day, were it not for the presence of a large Muslim population in Britain?

  31. Ron B said:

    Is it not ironic that the Government fears the Muslim population (War on Terror), but needs their vote? Hence we have the silly religious hatred bill.

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