But dealing with your paragraphs in order, 1) whatever, 2) no, I said “while we’re naturally inclined to believe our own side, the fact remains that our government has something of a record of dishonesty when it comes to international conflicts”, in the context of An Article That Could Be Written By A Brit Or An Iranian. By which I mean that HMG and the Iranian government are both proven liars in a war context. In no sense, way or means whatsoever have I suggested that HMG are *more severe* liars.

Not much of a news report then.

Did you mean to say that the Iranian goverment is more trustworthy than the British one? Because that is what you said. Can you prove this?

“Finally – I hope we can all agree that today’s news is excellent and reflects well on both governments – and rather less well on the ‘war! war! war!’ lobbyists on both sides. ”

Very much so.

Bit busy right now so will need to comment on the rest later, noting of course, that much of this is pretty moot now anyway…

C

IMO the fact that our government is formally allied with the US, and has not criticised either the US regime or the British press for their demonisation of Iran, is almost as bad as if it *had* joined in. However, it isn’t the same thing and I’ve amended the article accordingly.

Finally – I hope we can all agree that today’s news is excellent and reflects well on both governments – and rather less well on the ‘war! war! war!’ lobbyists on both sides.

I was merely pointing out that as far as the average Iranian may be concerned (and not being an Iranian — average or otherwise — this is mere speculation) when the Bush administration demonises Iran, it may well be seen as a US/UK position. In other words; until the UK contradicts or criticises some of Bush’s more bizarre and aggressive rhetoric, it will be seen as representative of the position of HMG (fairly or not).

So arguably, as long as the Bush administration promulgates “hate-filled rhetoric against the other side” with nary a word of criticism from the UK, it will be read as the hate-filled rhetoric of Britain and America.

The UK government merely has to raise a public voice of objection to the more extreme words of the US administration in order to correct this impression. But they haven’t. And until they do, they will be seen as being guilty of agreeing with the hate-filled rhetoric, even if not uttering it themselves.

this is what John Band says:

“… with domestic governments encouraging the media to whip up public opinion into hatred for the other side and outright desire for a destructive and bloody war.

We urge our government to drop its hate-filled rhetoric against the other side, …”

None of this is remotely true.
– HMG is not encouraging the media to whip up public opinion in support of a war with Iran;
– The media is not whipping up public opinion for any kind of war with Iran;
– There is no public support for a war with Iran;
– HMG is not issuing hate-filled rhetoric.

Take these things out of the equation and the article suddenly looks, well, a bit limp. HMG is, if anything, understating its case and being overly cautious and diplomatic.

The fact that “most of the planet currently sees the UK as little more than an extension of US foreign policy” is spectacularly irrelevant in the context of John’s stated intention for this article.

You seem also to have misunderstood G Tingey’s main point: “The current US governmnet might be, but that is another story.” That’s the whole point.

If John had wanted to make this point, he easily could have done, but in order to do so, he would have needed to branch out into a much wider critique of UK foreign policy in general and support for the US in particular. I reckon he didn’t because he knew that he would then have lost the support for the main thrust of his hypothetical article.

John,

If you’re around, looks like we need your input here.

Cleanthes

Which creates a problem for Britain. Like it or not (and British readers may object to this generalisation) most of the planet currently sees the UK as little more than an extension of US foreign policy. So long as the British government remains silent when Bush exhorts his people to see Iran as “evil”, all the while providing British military support for US imperialism, it becomes nigh-impossible to separate the views and positions of the two nations.

There is only too much realisation here (UK) that the Persian people deserve better than the tyrranical and hate-filled theocracy they are currently saddled with.
erm,, that reminds me ….
There is only too much realisation here (UK) that the American people deserve better than the semi-tyrranical and hate-filled theocracy they are currently saddled with.