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Comments on: In Defence of the Long-Term Unemployed http://sharpener.johnband.org/2006/12/in-defence-of-the-long-term-unemployed/ Trying to make a point Fri, 25 Jan 2008 12:21:35 +0000 hourly 1 By: frog http://sharpener.johnband.org/2006/12/in-defence-of-the-long-term-unemployed/#comment-58339 Wed, 10 Jan 2007 21:11:23 +0000 http://www.thesharpener.net/2006/12/21/in-defence-of-the-long-term-unemployed/#comment-58339 I’m longterm unemployed while also declaring my part-time earnins to the dole and NI people. (important here as penalties for employing blacklabour are severe.Keeps the Authorities off me back,too )

I like the idea of retraining the DSS people — being an all rounder, maybe I’d get a fulltime job doing that . (G.O.A.K.)

Hambrough – I see your point,to a degree, knowing well the good feeling of the status of being a fully working member of society. And the compulsion to get out of bed and “do it”.

Four years ago , at 56, I was taken on as a roofer and hacked it for 8 months beginning in winter at -8° C .
Sweeping chimneys as part of the job, our biggest tips came from the poorer parts of society, peasants, those with most repeck for the under-paid ‘real’ worker.

Agreeing with G Tingey, paying shitwages may make the CBI happy, but what does it do to the fabric of society ? 40years ago at uni, we looked at automation, Karl Marx, we foresaw the creation of an Underclass.

Easy.

A few days ago I read an acccount of a brit family taking the train, beer spilt and cans rollin around the floor, yobs being rowdy and unpleasant and a little menacing.

Well, maybe they had jobs ? But there were no conductors on the bloody train, and the animals ruled. Somebody had decided it was more cost-effective that way.

Way back everybody had a job, and the violence was confined to saturday night out from the pub. A very violent culture, those brits, we brits.

Changing a culture is not done swiftly, as blair has (perhaps) noticed in Iraq.

A Citizens Income is a brilliant theoretical idea, but the implementation would probably be hell.

Regional differences in housing costs particularly would be a nightmare.

As would deciding, at a given date, who was eligible.

Laugh or cry ? The ‘leitmotif’ of so much speechifying these days is from an argument of scarcity, as tho UK were a very POOR country, when it’s actually rolling in dough.

Simple. The distribution is all wrong. I hate to think what my nephew at GoldmanSachs had as a Christmas bonus, he’s a bright kid…

A Humane Basic Level of Existence makes sense , well said Merrick.

Hambrough doesn’t whinge about John Hutton being paid a good whack for attacking the unemployed, tho the cowardly creature would be more at his level on a building site or a callcentre. Life would be tough, somehow the poorer elements in society are better at identifying bullshit .

Hod-carrier? x ?

The Blair School of Government has been laughed right out of court, TeeHee, but according to Ham, Blair is OK . He did a ‘job’ you see, the ‘proof’ being he had a salary, Which is a guarantee that one is worthwhile.

With a Citizens Income, he might have been quite a success as a touring actor.

]]> By: Hambrough http://sharpener.johnband.org/2006/12/in-defence-of-the-long-term-unemployed/#comment-58279 Fri, 29 Dec 2006 18:53:31 +0000 http://www.thesharpener.net/2006/12/21/in-defence-of-the-long-term-unemployed/#comment-58279 We already pay people to do nothing all day. Some of them may be painting flowers or writing sonnets. Most of them are not: they are getting fat and ill and watching the worst TV. Without something (work or play) to do their lives become plotless and amoral. An alarming number will spend their days intoxicated. Not only do I not want to support that because it’s my money they are spending but also it’s immoral to encourage people to waste their time and my money. As for people who do paint flowers and write sonnets: great, but why do I have to pay for it?

]]> By: Jim Bliss http://sharpener.johnband.org/2006/12/in-defence-of-the-long-term-unemployed/#comment-58252 Tue, 26 Dec 2006 15:15:06 +0000 http://www.thesharpener.net/2006/12/21/in-defence-of-the-long-term-unemployed/#comment-58252 Between:
work gives people in society something to do
and:
Work gives people a reason to get up in the morning…

j.johnson; I’m genuinely shocked by how brazenly materialistic your viewpoint is. The implication of what you’re saying is that the only things worth doing, or the only things people will see as reasonable activities, are those that generate an economic return (i.e. what we know as “work”).

Many people (me, and most of my friends) have no problem finding things other than “work” to fill and fulfill their lives.

Human beings are indeed animals. But the idea that they are “mere animals” strikes me as being a deeply impoverished view of our species. And the idea that the best thing to do with us “mere animals” is to structure our world so that we spend our entire lives building metaphorical pyramids for the pharoahs is a perfect recipe for increasing that impoverishment.

If not for work we’d be less happy? Speak for yourself. Without a shadow of a doubt the best decision I ever made was to quit my (extremely lucrative) career and concentrate upon more important things. I’m far happier and I’m taking way less blood-pressure medication.

]]> By: j. johnson http://sharpener.johnband.org/2006/12/in-defence-of-the-long-term-unemployed/#comment-58251 Tue, 26 Dec 2006 14:15:38 +0000 http://www.thesharpener.net/2006/12/21/in-defence-of-the-long-term-unemployed/#comment-58251 having a citizen’s income is basically the same as what we have now in the way of – the minimum income the law says you are entitled to live on, and whether that’s in the form of JSA, income support etc., it really doesn’t matter.

what is important here are the reasons why people work. The main reason why people work is because work gives people in society something to do.

look at it this way – when a pharoah of ancient egypt looked down on his peoples he saw them robbing, raping, killing, blackmailing, having affairs, basically fighting and wanting to kill each other.

So he thought now how can i stop this kind of anarchy? I know get them working and with that he told his people’s to build him a pyramid or 2 etc!

Take away work from the human equation and you would see more and more destruction and misery in our society – afterall human beings are mere animals.

Work gives people a reason to get up in the morning and reduces the risk of them slitting their wrists, or rowing with their partners. Work gives people a reason to communicate with one another as no-one really wants to talk about their own personal problems.

At the end of the day humans are really an unhappy bunch and if it were not for work they would be even unhappier!

It’s just a pity a lot of workers don’t see it this way and are more concerned about their own bitterness toward work when they see people who do not work

]]> By: G. Tingey http://sharpener.johnband.org/2006/12/in-defence-of-the-long-term-unemployed/#comment-58238 Mon, 25 Dec 2006 15:09:10 +0000 http://www.thesharpener.net/2006/12/21/in-defence-of-the-long-term-unemployed/#comment-58238 Right – and wrong.

Unemployment in this country would be under 250 000 if there had not been large numbers of Easter-EU-immigrants let in.
As it is, they are here, and VERY CONVENEINTLY both maintaining a pool of unemployed labour, and keeping the wage rates down.

And I speak as a traditional very left-wing conservative, or right-wing labour ite …..

Then, I’m bitter.
I have an MSc in Engineering, a BSc in Physics, and an HNC in electronics, and I’ve been effectively unemplyed for over 5 years now – oh, and I’m almost 61.

Skills shortage? No.
Nicely submissive crawlers, aged under 35, who will take the shit wages offered-shortage? Yes.

]]> By: Kirsty http://sharpener.johnband.org/2006/12/in-defence-of-the-long-term-unemployed/#comment-58218 Sat, 23 Dec 2006 22:54:08 +0000 http://www.thesharpener.net/2006/12/21/in-defence-of-the-long-term-unemployed/#comment-58218 I think it’s an excellent idea.

Anyone with sufficient drive and interest in earning extra money will continue to do so. Those who don’t want to or are unable to work in a paid job would be freed to work in a voluntary capacity if they chose. I do believe that the majority of people will chose to do something with themselves. sure some people won’t but I think that most of us would eventually get bored and would join community groups or start our own businesses or something.

It would make life easier for artists and musicians when they were starting out – when it was easier to get, the dole used to be known as ‘the alternative arts council’. This would stimulate communities at a grass roots level.

If you’re already rich and feel embarrassed at receiving the money – well, give it to charity, they’d undoubtedly be thrilled to have it. Again, money would be spread around a bit more and that would benefit communities.

Of course, a lot of the DSS people would need to be retrained (excuse me while I laugh hysterically for a moment) but I’m sure there are other useful things they could be doing.

I can’t imagine it ever actually happening unfortunately but then I’m sure that people didn’t believe the NHS would ever happen.

]]> By: The Sharpener » Blog Archive » Politicians: emoting for England http://sharpener.johnband.org/2006/12/in-defence-of-the-long-term-unemployed/#comment-58194 Fri, 22 Dec 2006 15:20:29 +0000 http://www.thesharpener.net/2006/12/21/in-defence-of-the-long-term-unemployed/#comment-58194 […] May 2005 « In Defence of the Long-Term Unemployed | home | December 22nd, 2006 Politicians: emoting for England byDonald/TheJarndyceBlog […]

]]> By: john b http://sharpener.johnband.org/2006/12/in-defence-of-the-long-term-unemployed/#comment-58189 Fri, 22 Dec 2006 00:12:12 +0000 http://www.thesharpener.net/2006/12/21/in-defence-of-the-long-term-unemployed/#comment-58189 Fuck yeah! This may be the first time that a proper-socialist-like and Tim Worstall have agreed on stuff.

Except for the bit about freeing us from the spiritual hollowness of capitalism. That requires telling your own kids there ain’t no Santa Claus, and sadly nobody sane [*] is willing to make that sacrifice.

[*] understandably. I’ve met kids; Santa Claus makes them shut up; if you’re a recent parent anything which makes them shut up is a good thing; therefore Santa Claus is a good thing.

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