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Comments on: Making a crisis out of identity http://sharpener.johnband.org/2006/07/making-a-crisis-out-of-identity/ Trying to make a point Fri, 25 Jan 2008 12:21:35 +0000 hourly 1 By: Tim Worstall http://sharpener.johnband.org/2006/07/making-a-crisis-out-of-identity/#comment-19007 Sun, 09 Jul 2006 12:57:42 +0000 http://www.thesharpener.net/2006/07/01/making-a-crisis-out-of-identity/#comment-19007 Britblog Roundup #73…

Welcome once again to the Britblog thingie, your list of the poststhat you think should be brought to everyone’s attention. You can make your nominations for next week by emailing the URL to britblog AT gmail DOT com. Just whatever…

]]> By: a http://sharpener.johnband.org/2006/07/making-a-crisis-out-of-identity/#comment-18214 Thu, 06 Jul 2006 11:48:16 +0000 http://www.thesharpener.net/2006/07/01/making-a-crisis-out-of-identity/#comment-18214 Purcell knocked up this little gem for James II (VII of Scots) back in 1680-odd …

Britain, thou now art great indeed,

Arise! and proud of Caesar’s godlike sway,

Above the neighbour nations lift thy head,

Command the world while Caesar you obey.

Alas ! As it turned out, James couldn’t command his own nation.

]]> By: Paul http://sharpener.johnband.org/2006/07/making-a-crisis-out-of-identity/#comment-17144 Mon, 03 Jul 2006 10:59:09 +0000 http://www.thesharpener.net/2006/07/01/making-a-crisis-out-of-identity/#comment-17144 We’d be in even worse trouble than we are now if Habeas Corpus was a distinctly British attribute. ;)

]]> By: Antipholus Papps http://sharpener.johnband.org/2006/07/making-a-crisis-out-of-identity/#comment-17143 Mon, 03 Jul 2006 10:47:04 +0000 http://www.thesharpener.net/2006/07/01/making-a-crisis-out-of-identity/#comment-17143 What defines Britishness? How about the right to a fair trial? Presumption of innocence? Habeas Corpus?

I’m romanticising I know.

The sad truth is that most modern Britons think Habeas Corpus was the name of Russell Crowe’s character in Gladiator.

]]> By: Paul http://sharpener.johnband.org/2006/07/making-a-crisis-out-of-identity/#comment-17137 Mon, 03 Jul 2006 09:17:31 +0000 http://www.thesharpener.net/2006/07/01/making-a-crisis-out-of-identity/#comment-17137 Thanks Rachel.

And while I’m here, any brusqueness in the previous reply should be understandable with a look at the timestamp. I consider myself excused :)

]]> By: Rachel http://sharpener.johnband.org/2006/07/making-a-crisis-out-of-identity/#comment-16861 Sun, 02 Jul 2006 12:50:02 +0000 http://www.thesharpener.net/2006/07/01/making-a-crisis-out-of-identity/#comment-16861 I preferred your essay to the winning one too, both in content and style.

]]> By: Paul http://sharpener.johnband.org/2006/07/making-a-crisis-out-of-identity/#comment-16815 Sat, 01 Jul 2006 18:33:54 +0000 http://www.thesharpener.net/2006/07/01/making-a-crisis-out-of-identity/#comment-16815 Dearieme:

“Britannia” is the Latin for the older Greek “Pretanike”, I understand.

But the Greek sounds nothing like the English, so we got our name from the Latin.

The football point would be stronger if it weren’t for the fact that we’ve always been happy to field a British Lions rugby side every few years, which includes even the Oirish.

Rugby is irrelevant to the point being made, which was that whenever asked, no one wants a British football team except Ryan Giggs, and possibly his mum

And the “England” cricket side has always been British in spite of its name – its best-ever skipper was a Scot, one of its greatest batsman was Indian.

Again irrelevant, and you speak as if it wasn’t obvious – I once started a book with the line “I was born, like the best English cricketers, overseas.” It was all downhill from there.

Backword Dave:

I think you’ve got your timeline wrong. 9/11 was in 2001 (the ‘Osama-inspired actions’) ‘Cool Britannia’ which you allude to in the following paragraph was around 1997.

Read it again – “Its current renascence was sparked by the Osama-inspired actions…the previous movement… cool”

I don’t think the celebrations of the world cup I’ve read on many blogs, on TV and radio, and in the broadsheets has implied any tolerance at all for violence.

I was making a crude point – half of all football songs are about insulting the opposition… it’s lovely when we all get together for a sing-song… I was only alluding to violence as a obviously pithy exaggeration…

I’d almost forgotten what a prize posing wanker Will Self is

True, but I like him nonetheless :)

FWIW, I prefer your essay to the winner’s.

Ta.

“You should have…”

More to the point, I should have been more miserable and mentioned Iraq if I wanted to win a lefty-paper Fabian thing. Trying to get around this by referencing Orwell too often probably wasn’t enough… :)

]]> By: Robert Sharp » Blog Archive » Ben Pimlott Essay Prize http://sharpener.johnband.org/2006/07/making-a-crisis-out-of-identity/#comment-16795 Sat, 01 Jul 2006 12:37:41 +0000 http://www.thesharpener.net/2006/07/01/making-a-crisis-out-of-identity/#comment-16795 […] Over at The Sharpener, Paul has posted his version. […]

]]> By: Backword Dave http://sharpener.johnband.org/2006/07/making-a-crisis-out-of-identity/#comment-16794 Sat, 01 Jul 2006 12:24:18 +0000 http://www.thesharpener.net/2006/07/01/making-a-crisis-out-of-identity/#comment-16794 Me again, sorry. FWIW, I prefer your essay to the winner’s. You should have written in short sentences. Each point should be simple and unambiguous. A winning effort reads like a shopping list rewritten as prose. The odd longer sentence with a parethical observation, as here, breaks up the pattern. Then you get back to asserting facts.

I’m not saying that his style is dull. Indeed, it has much to commend it. He probably got an Oxford First, because his writing has that tincture of ambiguity they seem to like. First he says one thing, then he says something slightly different. First you state a thesis. Then an anthithesis. Perhaps, then, you resolve them. But sometimes not, just to surprise people.

To show you’ve read a bit, a quotation helps. TS Eliot compared reading Swinburne to drinking draughts of gin and water. I know what he meant.

]]> By: Backword Dave http://sharpener.johnband.org/2006/07/making-a-crisis-out-of-identity/#comment-16793 Sat, 01 Jul 2006 12:07:43 +0000 http://www.thesharpener.net/2006/07/01/making-a-crisis-out-of-identity/#comment-16793 Based solely on the opening, I’m struck by the thought that the funless Fabian judging panel put all entries through plagiarism detecting software — and naturally rejected yours.

I think you’ve got your timeline wrong. 9/11 was in 2001 (the ‘Osama-inspired actions’) ‘Cool Britannia’ which you allude to in the following paragraph was around 1997. If I may attempt to restate your argument; there was a debate (half cocked, as these things are) on positive British identity in the 90s and negative British identity in the naughties. The first was about including people in; the second, to paraphrase Sam Goldwyn, including people out.

“Speaking of football, … so we’re told.” I’m largely a football philistine (I watched Germany-Argentina yesterday, and I may follow the rest of the German games), but I don’t think we are told that. (NB passive voice, evading the point: by whom?) I don’t think the celebrations of the world cup I’ve read on many blogs, on TV and radio, and in the broadsheets has implied any tolerance at all for violence. Coming together — good thing. Coming together to kick heads in (or even sing about it), I’ve missed that bit.

I’d almost forgotten what a prize posing wanker Will Self is, as his ‘Grumpy Old Men’ cameos are, while less amusing and percipient that Rory McGrath’s, not entirely devoid of humour. Thanks for reminding me.

So many of these definitions are parochial. Orwell’s Suet pudding is clearly a reference to the menu at Eton. Liking Monty Python is a barometer of watching BBC2 and understanding student humour. Most readers of this blog will be sympathetic to both, but I doubt Jim Davidson is, and he is British too. Boris Johnson’s trunks reminded me of when I started swimming regularly in London. There, men take their trunks off in the showers; that was unthinkable in Scotland. And while the Germans are less body shy than we are on the beach, it’s always the British who flash their tits first.

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