Comments on: The Thursday rant #4

By: Paul Evans

Paul Evans — Tue, 08 Nov 2005 23:46:56 +0000

Sorry to break ranks here, but I think that this post is tilting at a bit of a straw man.

Anti-Israel sentiment is by no means universal on the left. Most of the people that I know on the left tend to be largely agnostic on the subject. Many are critical of what is portrayed in the British media as disproportionate Israeli responses to terrorism.

They tend to think that, if the US were slightly less supportive of Israel, then it may be more willing to compromise or negotiate, but for the most part, these views are usually expressed hesitatingly. The SWP, are – of course – anti-Israel and have proved to be the objective allies of anti-semites. But just because they’re a bunch of loudmouths, it doesn’t make them representative of the general Left.

Maybe I’ve just got unusually pro-Israeli friends on the left. But I don’t think so…

By: LanceThruster

LanceThruster — Tue, 01 Nov 2005 04:21:03 +0000

There are many difficult issues to sort out among the belligerents (if only the conflict could be contained within the region). I think media coverage is, on the whole, decidedly pro-Zionist. I think Israel, Zionists, Jews, and organized Jewry benefit from the confusion of terms and overlapping designations. Norman Finkelstein documents how false claims are used by some of the preceding groups to shield themselves from valid criticism. Finally, I think the US has become a vassal state of fifth columnists loyal to a foreign power.

By: http://modernityblog.blogspot.com/

http://modernityblog.blogspot.com/ — Wed, 26 Oct 2005 01:41:00 +0000

The Moai’s correct in the assertion that Left wing anti-Semitism is alive and well, and hiding under the cover of anti-Israelism.

Anyone familiar with 1930-1950s Stalinism will recognise the comparable terminology used then and now.

By: Phil E

Phil E — Fri, 21 Oct 2005 13:43:57 +0000

Each country exists due to hundreds of years of battles; conquests and divisions. Each country has a legitimate right to defend itself. Israel does exist and thatÃ¢â‚¬â„¢s the only justification it requires to continue to exist - Zionism is irrelevant. I entirely agree: I'll come right out and say that, in my opinion, the nation state of Israel should not be destroyed by force. When you find left-wing critics of Zionism who are saying that Israel should be destroyed by force, let me know and I'll denounce them.

By: Largetrousers

Largetrousers — Fri, 21 Oct 2005 13:34:03 +0000

Guys, gals, come on, I’m no Miss World but why can’t everybody just get on ?, eh ?

By: Monjo

Monjo — Fri, 21 Oct 2005 12:37:48 +0000

to exist (God-given or other). Each country exists due to hundreds of years of battles; conquests and divisions. Each country has a legitimate right to defend itself. Israel does exist and that’s the only justification it requires to continue to exist – Zionism is irrelevant.

It does seem that when a country which appears to forcibly control a weaker segment of its people against their will the Western World acts always to cry for protection of whom they see as oppressed (Tibet, Kurds etc.). However, there’s no genocide in the West Bank or the Gaza strip – no forcible starvations ÃƒÂ¡ la Darfur. If we did not see images of children Palestinians throwing stones against armed Israeli soldiers, but instead saw the Palestinian snipers trying to kill the soldiers.. or if we saw more detail of captured Israelis being publicly executed by Palestinian mobs we may adjust our views (say how annoyed we may have been had the SAS guys been killed in Iraq a few weeks ago?)

Israel is not blameless in all her actions but she is no Evil Empire. The “left-wing” hatred toward Israel is despicable and is good to see someone like The Moai demonstrate the courage to speak up.

By: Monjo

Monjo — Fri, 21 Oct 2005 12:37:24 +0000

One can not deny a sizeable proportion of anti-Israeli sentiment stems from anti-Semitism. It is irrelevant whether then some is justified by an historical quibble over the right for Israel’s existence or its behaviour post-independence.

For the record, no country has a right

By: Carl

Carl — Fri, 21 Oct 2005 12:22:17 +0000

Phil E: I didn’t want to get accused of being an anti semite because of my ineloquence, and so didn’t elaborate too much. Thanks for expressing my thoughts o my behalf.

By: Phil E

Phil E — Fri, 21 Oct 2005 10:56:59 +0000

One certainly could criticise Israel for perfectly valid reasons, and, as Carl points out there are Jews who have expressed deep disquiet with IsraelÃ¢â‚¬â„¢s behaviour in some situations.

You need to grasp that nettle a bit more firmly. There are Jews, as well as Gentiles, who oppose the very existence of the state of Israel – who believe that it was founded on fundamentally flawed premises, and that there can only be justice in the region if the current state is replaced with something very different. (There’s room for debate as to what – I’m in the ‘single secular democratic state’ camp, for what it’s worth.) Needless(?) to say, this has nothing to do with driving anyone into the sea. I’m very glad that anti-Zionist Jews exist, as it makes it possible for non-Jews to express anti-Zionist views without automatically being accused of anti-semitism. At least, I thought it did.

Incidentally, what was your precise point about Pluto Press? Does the fact that the press was founded by Trots mean that we can’t believe anything they publish ever, or just anything they publish about Israel? Please clarify.

By: Andrew Bartlett

Andrew Bartlett — Thu, 20 Oct 2005 16:28:39 +0000

No, Jarndyce, I said more objective. The Moai’s assertions were based on his/her blood boiling when seeing pictures of Palestinians weeping, while the Glasgow University research was a thorough analysis.

Whatever your stripe, it takes someone who is lying/hasn’t watched the news/is talking out of their arse/delusional to suggest that Palestinain deaths receive more coverage than Israeli deaths, or that voices supporting the Palestian ‘side’ receive as much air-time as those of the Israeli ‘side’.

The Moai can choose the category that s/he wants.