And, naturally, we are evil Tories; what could be more natural that we wish to implement Tory policies that failed to even set the party faithful alight? Heaven forbid that we think for ourselves rather than trot out socialist dogma…

DK

Where did I say I wanted to introduce the (crap) Conservative voucher scheme from the last election, Neil?

I wasn’t proposing anything as such. However, since you ask, I am pretty much with Andrew here.

I can’t be bothered to argue any more about the MRSA stats, as far as I am concerned I have shown they are far worse in the US.

Neil, all hospital acquired infections are not MRSA. It’s quite simple: Andrew is saying that you are not comparing like with like. Read his reply; it’s not complicated.

Even David Cameron (maybe your next leader) accepts he was wrong on this, because it is a bureaucratic system that effectively funded ‘those who could already afford to go private’ with taxpayers money.

This is why I won’t vote for Cameron and his “compassionate Conservatism”. You see that taxpayers’ money? Who exactly are the taxpayers? Those who pay tax: those who pay the most should benefit the most. That’s fair, isn’t it?

DK

Andrew, we both agree that the US system is crap, and the US system is based on a ‘free market’ of private provision- it has failed. I can’t be bothered to argue any more about the MRSA stats, as far as I am concerned I have shown they are far worse in the US. Show me proof it is worse here than there if you can?

The vouchers idea IS totally different to what Labour is doing because it was only 50% of NHS cost being funded. If it had been 100% then it would be similar to what Labour is doing. Even David Cameron (maybe your next leader) accepts he was wrong on this, because it is a bureaucratic system that effectively funded ‘those who could already afford to go private’ with taxpayers money.

The opening up of the NHS to a ‘sort of’ private competition in each area is very radical and dangerous because it might mean inefficient hospitals closing. This limitation to a choice of local hospital, is a way of gradually introducing this reform without some areas losing all their hospitals. Although I think Labour is right to open the NHS up to competition, it is risky and could backfire when hospitals close. I just hope Labour is not trying to rush this through, that is my main worry.

Neil, I appreciate that. The the nth time, what I disagree with is that so much of the money that we all donate is not going to health provision. How difficult is that concept to grasp? You say the NHS is “pretty good”, and I say it’s not nearly good enough. What I provided in the rant was just one example of wastage.

I don’t agree with ideology, no matter where it comes from.

Oh, for fuck’s sake.

DK

You haven’t shown that at all Neil. You don’t know what the MRSA rate in either the UK or the US is. Try re-reading my last comment.

If you support private provision in health, what do you think of the fact from 2008 we will have a choice of private or public hospital on the NHS. I think it will increase competition and hopefully efficiency, so I support it.

I like it, but it doesn’t go far enough. There are still restrictions on where you can choose to be treated, as I understand the proposals. It should be completely open. And while we’re on the subject, how is this any different to a voucher scheme, which is just a way to allocate public spending to a multitude of suppliers?

The vouchers idea doesn’t help the poor at all, to pretend otherwise is stupid.

Why the hell are Labour doing it then?

The article you linked is a classic example of the BBC putting a misleading headline to a sensible article. Let me quote from it to show you why:

Laing and Buisson, independent healthcare analysts, found the number of people with personal or work private health insurance rose slightly in 2004.

But report author economist Philip Blackburn warned reduced waits and more choice in free NHS services could cut demand for private care in the future.

Right, so the number of people with private insurance has gone up, but the report author is speculating that demand could drop in the future, unless the industry adapts through innovation.

Well, that’s a description of every business in every industry I know. If you don’t innovate, demand drops as your product becomes outdated and less useful. It’s a description of competition, and that’s a good thing.

I think this article demonstrates the NHS is heading in the right direction.

If the private healthcare companies are worried about falling waiting times in the NHS and predicting a fall in the numbers taking out private healthcare insurance there must be something good happening to the NHS.

I don’t think the childish insults do you any favours but that is up to you I suppose. Let’s try and get back to the debate if we can.

The vouchers idea doesn’t help the poor at all, to pretend otherwise is stupid.

If you support private provision in health, what do you think of the fact from 2008 we will have a choice of private or public hospital on the NHS. I think it will increase competition and hopefully efficiency, so I support it.

As for unions, i think the ‘luddite’ attitude of some british unions has not helped the left’s cause. I don’t agree with ideology, no matter where it comes from.

DK, none of us want money wasted, but the NHS is actually pretty good, and in 2008 you can choose between private and public provision which hopefully will improve efficiency. I have never used the NHS, apart from when I was a kid, but I am more than willing to pay for it. I haven’t got any kids yet but I appreciate paying for their education is in my interests. Stop thinking about your own selfish short term needs and start thinking a bit more about living in a decent society.

*reminds himself that he must publish his manifesto soon*

DK