Comments on: Galloway and Hitchens, New York, 14 September 2005 – an eyewitness account

By: TCM

TCM — Mon, 19 Sep 2005 16:51:59 +0000

Some dumb schmucks pay good money for a bit of highly scripted and rehearsed third-rate light entertainment and a dodgy souvenir book (one for each side, just to maximise sales), the fans boo and cheer at and with each other throughout, and everyone goes home afterwards with a vacuous smile on their faces (and, in the case of the two pugilists, with bigger bank balances). Meanwhile, the status quo remains unchanged.

It was, as Mike C intimates, a classic American-style spectacle. Enough witty one-liners amongst the dull, rehashed storyline to keep you passively watching but ultimately unfulfilling in every respect. In fact, just like ‘Friends’ but without the benefit of a bit of eye candy.

My political aspirations are just a little bit more ambitious than this.

By: Backword Dave

Backword Dave — Sat, 17 Sep 2005 22:25:18 +0000

Mike, you watched two British bruisers debate, House of Commons style, “courtesy of the Beeb and Channel Four.” And you can’t imagine “that sort of clash” outside the US. Odd, I call that.

By: Mike Cunningham

Mike Cunningham — Sat, 17 Sep 2005 14:59:48 +0000

I think the point is being missed by both the poster, the two contestants, the audience and the commentators!

This is what Democracy in action is all about! This is Freedom of Speech! In the greatest city of what many care to aver is the greatest country in the world, here is living proof that one nut-case can stand up and shout at another nut-case about his beliefs, in the sure and certain knowledge that there is no-one standing taking notes, or planning to do a little mid-night arrest sessions!

The whole shebang was, from the little I’ve personaly seen and heard, courtesy of the Beeb and Channel Four, vintage Galloway leavened with a smidgen of Hitchen, but it could have been Cindy Sheehan and the blogger Blackfive on the same platform and the result would have been just as superior! Can anyone imagine that sort of clash taking place ANYWHERE in this wide world except in the United States of America! Call that country what you will, and there are plenty who do, that two-hour session is what America is, and does!

Well done George, and well done Peter, but most of all, well done America!

By: Ben P

Ben P — Sat, 17 Sep 2005 08:51:32 +0000

That sounds about right to me – or the summary I would give, although I wasn’t there of course.

It was the kind of spectacle – I’d compare it to WWF wrestling (or WWE, as it is known now). The folks at Harry’s Place are raving, for the most part, about how great Hitchens is, but then again they would. My sense is that this debate isn’t going to change anyone’s minds – I don’t even know if its worth making this point, really. People are just going to take out of it what they brought into it, really. Its a bit like a sports rivalry more than anything else.

BTW, as to the whole Harry’s Place types – could someone explain there obsession with Galloway? About half of their posts are devoted to this fringe politician who has no significant popular following. I mean, to me – and maybe this is just speaking from an American context – Galloway is just a more media-savvy version of these Social Freedom Party (or whatever it is they’re called) types who stand on street corners in cities like Seattle (where I live) and then get less than 1% of the vote in elections. I mean who cares. The guy’s a loon. Lets move on.

Are they just using him as a useful strawman so they don’t have to defend themselves against more serious and sophisticated arguments against the Iraq War (some of which you mention)? Or is it some kind of self-absorbed inter “left” squabble reminiscent of the famous schisms amongst Marxists of yesteryear? I suspect its a bit of both.

By: bwanadik

bwanadik — Fri, 16 Sep 2005 15:35:45 +0000

Watching these bruisers – for all their faults, especially in gorgeous’ case – slug it out in front of fawning yankee fanboys gives this liberal universalist a peculiar feeling. Something like, national pride?

By: Third Avenue

Third Avenue — Thu, 15 Sep 2005 16:53:29 +0000

Dave – I think you’re right, which only adds to my frustration at last night’s debate. I would just add that both men had plenty of supporters – Galloway’s were a bit closer to the microphones (my impression, anyway). The pro-Hitchenites were just as vocal in the hall, but this may not come across as well in the broadcast.

By: Backword Dave

Backword Dave — Thu, 15 Sep 2005 16:48:09 +0000

The quote is Hitchens, but he’s used it before (I *think* in a Slate piece, but it may be in an interview). Certainly “this is masochism” is his take on liberals and others and the attitude that some of the causes of 9/11 originated from the US/the West.

I saw some of the webcast last night — up to Galloway’s second 10 minutes. For me, Hitchens was the more impressive, but partly because GG’s supporters seemed ruder, which CH dealt with well. I think the problem with both is that Hitchens is clearly defending some other war — an ideal, principled, purely humanitarian war, with no realpolitik (like say the abolition of slavery; an analogy he has used in the past) while Galloway’s alliances seem far from admirable. Hitchens’ putting the murder of Casey Sheehan on a contact of GG was superb — probably the best single barb of the evening. (As with much both said, I’ll need some convincing that the truth is a simple as that.)

I agree with you on the best bits, but those are the best arguments no matter who makes them. I’m touched by the argument for tyrant removal; but the history of botched foreign interventions (and in the case of Iraq, the really sketchy post invasion plans) swung me against the invasion. Nothing in this changed my mind.

By: Chris B

Chris B — Thu, 15 Sep 2005 15:47:45 +0000

That quote you can’t attribute was by Hitchens, I believe he was referring to George’s support for enemies away from home, and then returning to the UK and recommending that we surrender to the self same people. Not too far off a description I’d say, FWIW.