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Comments on: Whatever http://sharpener.johnband.org/2005/05/whatever/ Trying to make a point Fri, 25 Jan 2008 12:21:35 +0000 hourly 1 By: Andrew http://sharpener.johnband.org/2005/05/whatever/#comment-242 Sun, 15 May 2005 17:42:59 +0000 http://www.thesharpener.net/?p=37#comment-242 but to those whose lives are blighted by it, every day of every week, it’s quite huge, believe me.

Indeed, so target that, and don’t use the issue to raise fear amongst the comfortably secure middle-classes who certainly aren’t blighted by it. That’s where my problem with ‘anti-social behaviour’ lies – it’s another bogeyman to frighten people who really have no right to be frightened, as they can, and have, bought their way out of trouble.

On the Tory campaign, we’re all grown up here and we can discuss this without it getting ugly. Michael Howard obviously was extremely careful to speak in a measured tone, and not to say anything overtly or even implicitly racist. That doesn’t mean it doesn’t resonate with different people in different ways. Debating the issue is fine, but there are a lot of soft-left urbanites who hear something completely different when you call for controls on immigration. That has to be accounted for and dealt with appropriately, because it won’t change.

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By: Brian B. http://sharpener.johnband.org/2005/05/whatever/#comment-239 Sun, 15 May 2005 16:03:43 +0000 http://www.thesharpener.net/?p=37#comment-239 Two small comments: ‘anti-social behaviour’ (and there’s no need to apologise for the term) may not be a “huge problem, being more an issue of perception than actual danger (with a few notable exceptions…” to many people: but to those whose lives are blighted by it, every day of every week, it’s quite huge, believe me. A woman of nearly 70 living on the 10th floor of a tower block where the two lifts are routinely disabled (sometimes burned out) by vandals and where there are drug pushers and their clients all over the building both inside and out, and where groups of young people (sorry, but they are mostly in hoods) in the surrounding streets so frequently mug passers-by for their money or mobile phones (or to proclaim their sense of alienation or whatever it is) that neither the local council nor the police nor the housing department nor social services can be bothered to take the slightest notice — such a person (and I haven’t invented her), despite being big, resilient, able to look after herself, confident, and sassy, can perhaps be forgiven for regarding it as a problem, whether huge or not. It looms at least as large in her scheme of things as fox-hunting or whether the LibDems are slightly to the left of Labour or slightly to the right of it.

And the other comment: I agree very much with the point you almost made about those who denounced the Conservative election campaign for daring to raise the subject of immigration — and it was the small-L liberal media who cried ‘racism!’ every time the subject was raised, just as much as Labour ministers and other politicians. I have never voted Tory in my life, and don’t expect to, but I never heard the slightest hint of racism in the Tory discussion of immigration (nor any attempt to lump it together with asylum seekers, another accusation widely and recklessly made). It’s plainly a legitimate subject of political debate, and those who sought to stifle it ought to be ashamed of themselves.

That’s my tuppence-worth, anyway.

Brian

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By: Andrew http://sharpener.johnband.org/2005/05/whatever/#comment-226 Fri, 13 May 2005 14:40:00 +0000 http://www.thesharpener.net/?p=37#comment-226 Indeed, but it’s hard to deny that the parliamentary Conservative party are authoritarian in some sense.

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By: dearieme http://sharpener.johnband.org/2005/05/whatever/#comment-225 Fri, 13 May 2005 14:34:02 +0000 http://www.thesharpener.net/?p=37#comment-225 ” all of our political parties are authoritarians of some stripe”: I’m not convinced. My dear wife is a Tory and her chums are not simply, or simply not, “authoritarians”. Some are classical liberals; more often, they are individually or collectively weighing up the relative merits of liberty vs. authority, issue by issue. This often makes for intelligent and stimulating discussion, especially since (i) they all seem to believe in free speech, leading to frank and vigorous phrasing, and (ii) they seem to have had a wide variety of experience in life. As an outsider, I should guess that New Labour discussions must be ultra-dull: no tension there between freedom and the stamping boot, and all phrased, presumably, in a constipated PC jargon fitted to a party where most of them seem to be drawn from a very narrow part of society (not much experience, for instance, in the market economy). Are any of the Lib Dems liberals?

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