Comments on: Forward with the Tories?

By: Andrew

Andrew — Fri, 13 May 2005 17:37:44 +0000

Davis, meanwhile, strikes me as a smug twat. But he's our smug twat.

By: Nosemonkey

Nosemonkey — Fri, 13 May 2005 16:21:15 +0000

Blast from the past, certainly, but also untainted by the failures of the last eight years.

Plus, thanks to having been out of parliament he can easily shift direction, saying it’s because he has a more realistic view of the world than Blair due to having lived in it, not Westminster Village, for the best part of a decade. Turn the “I’ve listened and I’ve learned” thing back on Blair: “How have you listened, how have you learned? You’ve been stuck in Downing Street, venturing out only to meet specially-screened party drones and the occasional journalist! I’ve been working and living in the real world, without 24 hour security, without all mail being screened, having to buy my own groceries and talking to real people for the best part of the last decade. I’ve seen how your policies are affecting the country, Mr Blair…” etc.

Davis, meanwhile, strikes me as a smug twat.

By: Andrew

Andrew — Fri, 13 May 2005 15:48:25 +0000

Don’t know about Rifkind – feels too much like a blast from the past, despite his qualifications for the job. Nonetheless, I expect a Rifkind – Davis face-off.

By: Third Avenue

Third Avenue — Fri, 13 May 2005 13:24:54 +0000

Rifkind would be an extremely sensible choice – which probably rules him out.

It would be a huge mistake for either Osbourne or Cameron to be elected now – Hague would have been much better off waiting another election or two. He might then have made a credible leader. Likewise, these two youngsters should stick it out. Comparing them to Blair and Brown is, for the time being, misplaced. By the time the 1994 Labour leadership election came around, those two had been prominent public figures for quite a few years. I doubt if O&C have a current recognition level above 2%…

By: Nosemonkey

Nosemonkey — Fri, 13 May 2005 13:18:38 +0000

Their only sensible choice is Rifkind – beyond all his other qualifications he’s got the ability to bridge the divide, and is of an age where he would probably only be able to do two terms as leader, building up the young blood to a level where they could lead. But the Tories, let’s face it, are hardly known for being sensible these days.

By: The Sharpener » Whatever

The Sharpener » Whatever — Fri, 13 May 2005 12:31:37 +0000

[…] l become endemic to most of politics. The problem, as Third Avenue expresses so eloquently below, is that all of our political parties are authoritarians of some stripe. They all believe that government […]

By: Jarndyce

Jarndyce — Fri, 13 May 2005 09:39:16 +0000

I’ve said before that I think there’s an historic opportunity right now for Britain in the EU to tip the thing away from Franco-German-ness towards what we want it to be. Almost all the new accession members are naturally Anglophile, some surpassing even the UK in their love of the US and suspicion of France and Germany. They could be led. Standing on the outside and shouting abuse is pissing that chance away. The Tories ought to be taking the fight from that angle, not pandering to a small rump that it would cost them as many votes to grab as they would gain from such a manoeuvre. They need a public Clause 4 moment, and Europe would be my battlefield of choice. Of course, if they choose Davis, that will never happen.

By: Nosemonkey

Nosemonkey — Fri, 13 May 2005 09:12:51 +0000

You’re spot-on with a lot of this stuff. Where is a right of centre party without national pride?

And when ARE they going to realise that the hardcore anti-European fringe are not their way back to power?

The anti-EU parties (including here UKIP, Veritas, the BNP and the Greens, not all of which are by any means solely made up of disaffected Tories) between them got 1,109,987 votes. But I’d say it’s a safe bet that most people voting for the Greens weren’t doing so for their stance on the EU, so knock off their total, you’re left with just 852,229. Though this is more than the difference (in terms of popular vote) between the Tories and Labour, it’s nowhere near enough for a majority – just 68,000 votes. On top of that the anti-EU vote tends to be readily mobilised, so it’s unlikely there are many more of them knocking around.

I mean, I can fully understand why the withdrawalists reckon leaving the EU is the answer to all their problems (and it’s not just because some of them are barking), but the Tories really need to reclaim the positive side of the EU. I mean, after all, the EU got a lot of its impetus from Churchill, it was Macmillan who tried to get us in to start with, Heath who finally got us there, and Thatcher and Major who signed us up to a bunch of the subsequent treaties. Britain’s place in Europe is thanks to the Tories – it’s about time they reclaimed it, even if they have to do so with a slightly sceptical take.

A reserved pro-EU stance – acknowledging its major faults but with a positive message of evolution and change (which will be much easier to bring about with the new member states on board, tipping the balance of power away from France) – may not only be a handy way for the Tories to bring together their various sects, but is also what the pro-EU camp in this country sorely needs.