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Comments on: Britain and the EU constitution http://sharpener.johnband.org/2007/02/britain-and-the-eu-constitution/ Trying to make a point Fri, 25 Jan 2008 12:21:35 +0000 hourly 1 By: Cleanthes http://sharpener.johnband.org/2007/02/britain-and-the-eu-constitution/#comment-58548 Tue, 27 Feb 2007 10:09:01 +0000 http://www.thesharpener.net/2007/02/21/britain-and-the-eu-constitution/#comment-58548 NM,

So when you described the UK as the fat bully that steals other people’s cake, you were in fact really rather wide of the mark and it would be nice if you fessed up to that one.

And no: it isn’t “our” choice: no-one under the age of 50 made this choice and the ones that are both over 50 and did make that choice were lied to in order to secure their consent.

Our choice would be to hold onto our cake and not go the party at all. Because actually we have enough people at home for a party of our own.

]]> By: Nosemonkey / Europhobia » Blog Archive » Blair and the EU constitution http://sharpener.johnband.org/2007/02/britain-and-the-eu-constitution/#comment-58542 Sun, 25 Feb 2007 14:02:08 +0000 http://www.thesharpener.net/2007/02/21/britain-and-the-eu-constitution/#comment-58542 […] As you may have noticed, I’ve spent a fair amount of this week highlighting the lack of British involvement in the ever-increasing moves towards reviving / revising the EU constitution. Now, via Iain Dale, it seems that the (anti-EU Rupert Murdoch tabloid) News of the World reckon they’ve uncovered what Blair’s up to: the Prime Minister intends to rubber-stamp the European Constitution without consulting his likely successor Chancellor Gordon Brown — not to mention British voters. […]

]]> By: Katherine http://sharpener.johnband.org/2007/02/britain-and-the-eu-constitution/#comment-58536 Fri, 23 Feb 2007 10:03:00 +0000 http://www.thesharpener.net/2007/02/21/britain-and-the-eu-constitution/#comment-58536 I don’t think there are many supporters of the EU who think of it as a tool to create a single cultural entity in Europe. Possibly political yes, at the extreme end, but not cultural. If there is one thing that all members of the EU are likely to get precious about, it’s their individual cultures.

]]> By: Lithcol http://sharpener.johnband.org/2007/02/britain-and-the-eu-constitution/#comment-58534 Thu, 22 Feb 2007 21:32:03 +0000 http://www.thesharpener.net/2007/02/21/britain-and-the-eu-constitution/#comment-58534 The whole idea of Europe as a single cultural, political entity was bogus from its inception.
We have enough problems with the UK as a single entity etc.
France is a nice country to visit, but I wouldn’t want to live under their system of government. Newer countries, no way.
We have our ways, they have theirs.
Long live ours, and long live theirs.

]]> By: Jonn http://sharpener.johnband.org/2007/02/britain-and-the-eu-constitution/#comment-58533 Thu, 22 Feb 2007 12:29:14 +0000 http://www.thesharpener.net/2007/02/21/britain-and-the-eu-constitution/#comment-58533 Hmmm. I’m not sure I’m comfortable with the idea that Britain is always in the wrong and the EU would be better off without us.

I mean, yes, tabloid propaganda, John Redwood and all that. But Britain has pushed for some valuable reforms – most notably expansion, cutting the CAP and redirecting spending towards R&D.

Yes, Blair failed miserably on most of those kind of aims, and I’m not really arguing with your suggestion that the domestic political situation makes it tough to get anything done.

But nonetheless, to characterize Britain as the one country always in the way of EU reforms is a little… bizarre. France alone has done its fair share of party-fat-bullying.

]]> By: Nosemonkey http://sharpener.johnband.org/2007/02/britain-and-the-eu-constitution/#comment-58532 Thu, 22 Feb 2007 11:49:14 +0000 http://www.thesharpener.net/2007/02/21/britain-and-the-eu-constitution/#comment-58532 The cake bit? Go on then… Let’s stretch this even further:

Britain’s like someone who turns up to the party with a really huuuge cake, hands it over, and then demands that they’re given the biggest slice, as it’s not fair that they’ve given such a large cake, even though it was their own decision to do so in the first place…

How’s that?

]]> By: Cleanthes http://sharpener.johnband.org/2007/02/britain-and-the-eu-constitution/#comment-58531 Thu, 22 Feb 2007 11:32:51 +0000 http://www.thesharpener.net/2007/02/21/britain-and-the-eu-constitution/#comment-58531 Nm,

Anything on the “cake” bit?

C

]]> By: Nosemonkey http://sharpener.johnband.org/2007/02/britain-and-the-eu-constitution/#comment-58530 Wed, 21 Feb 2007 15:02:29 +0000 http://www.thesharpener.net/2007/02/21/britain-and-the-eu-constitution/#comment-58530 Cleanthes – not eurosceptic in the sense that they’d like to pull out, necessarily, just sceptical of further integration. And pretty much any and every change to the way the EU runs is pitched as further integration by the even more eurosceptic (or simply euroignorant) press, even when it isn’t.

Jonn – there are certainly plenty of other awkward cases these days, that’s for sure, but if Britain gets uppity she can’t be ignored or placated as easily as some of the others. Every time the EU seems to be getting anywhere in terms of reform, in the last case it’s usually Britain that raises objections that either dilute the thing to near-meaninglessness or halt it altogether – as would certainly have happened with the constitution if we’d ever got around to having a referendum (cf. comments about the press and public above…). The EU is simply too contentious an issue for any government to risk being too involved with it, for fear of being accused of taking the country closer to joining the mythical federal superstate.

As for what the EU would be doing differently if the UK wasn’t a member – not a lot, at the moment. It’d still be in a state of stalemate thanks to the French and Dutch votes, after all. But had the UK not been a member a few years back when the Convention on the Future of Europe was drawing up the constitution, then British objections would not have been there to water down the reforms. At least part of the reason for the French rejecting the thing was that it was “too Anglo-Saxon” – this wouldn’t have been the case without Britain’s (mostly negative) input, and it’s entirely possible that the constitution would have both been better and have been ratified by now, allowing the EU to run much more effectively.

]]> By: Jonn http://sharpener.johnband.org/2007/02/britain-and-the-eu-constitution/#comment-58529 Wed, 21 Feb 2007 14:24:18 +0000 http://www.thesharpener.net/2007/02/21/britain-and-the-eu-constitution/#comment-58529 All very true. But one point I’m curious about:

The EU would be far better off without us

You really think? Why? First off, we’re hardly the only awkward one any more, nor are we the only Anglo economy.

And secondly – if Britain was to live out its cherished dream of being towed to somewhere off the coast of Maine, what would the EU be doing differently that would be such an improvement?

]]> By: Cleanthes http://sharpener.johnband.org/2007/02/britain-and-the-eu-constitution/#comment-58528 Wed, 21 Feb 2007 13:17:33 +0000 http://www.thesharpener.net/2007/02/21/britain-and-the-eu-constitution/#comment-58528 ” or steal their cake.”

That’s not really a sensible analogy for a country with such a large net contribution.

We’re the fat kid that no-one likes who gets pulled into events that we don’t want to go to so that we can be made to pay for the drinks whilst the cool kids laugh at us.

” the largely eurosceptic British public “

Remind me about that democracy thing again?

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