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Comments on: Science and history, equally ignored http://sharpener.johnband.org/2006/11/science-and-history-equally-ignored/ Trying to make a point Fri, 25 Jan 2008 12:21:35 +0000 hourly 1 By: guthrie http://sharpener.johnband.org/2006/11/science-and-history-equally-ignored/#comment-57810 Mon, 06 Nov 2006 12:34:12 +0000 http://www.thesharpener.net/2006/11/01/science-and-history-equally-ignored/#comment-57810 It depends what you mean by funding as well- I am pretty sure that university funding overall has been negatively affected by the 80’s and 90’s expansion of HE. The gvt wanted more degrees, but wasnt wanting to pay for it all. But that is just uni teaching funding, then theres the research funding, which many people have been pointing out for years has become too skewed towards companies and their immediate desires, rather than longer term explorations of possibilities.
Hence the nanotech thing a few years ago, when the best way to get funding was to put the word nanotech into your proposal.

Having actually gone and read the Reid article, I think it is a great slur upon our ancestors. WW2 and the current terrorist problems are simply not comparable, both in scope and aims.
Where are these 214 people who have been convicted of terrorism offences? I cant think of more than 5 or 6, if any.
His quote:
“Mr Reid said business played a vital role in creating the security and resilience needed to defeat terrorists.

He urged the security sector to harness their expertise in the same way as bouncing bomb inventor Barnes Wallis and the Enigma code cracker Alan Turing did.”

Can effectively be taken as meaning that he wants more privatisation of security services.
Oh look, I was right:
“The home secretary also proposed the creation of a new “innovation taskforce” to encourage security and technology companies to work together where possible.”

Now, what does this suggest except more chances for confusion and money making by politicians and civil servants?

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By: Nosemonkey http://sharpener.johnband.org/2006/11/science-and-history-equally-ignored/#comment-57809 Mon, 06 Nov 2006 12:15:46 +0000 http://www.thesharpener.net/2006/11/01/science-and-history-equally-ignored/#comment-57809 Chris – I’ll see if they’ve got it at the local library, failing that head to the BL in a couple of weeks when I’ve got some spare time (I’m not too hot on British aviation policy after about 1938, it must be admitted…)

The major point, though, was that the specific examples Reid chose were poor for a government man to take up on due to those inventors’ effective betrayal by the state.

Perhaps I also should have specified that by “last few decades” I meant since the 1970s. I have no actual figures to back up the assertion that science and technology funding has been in decline since then, but I doubt this would be hard to track down, and there is plenty of anecdotal evidence – such as that from guthrie, above.

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By: guthrie http://sharpener.johnband.org/2006/11/science-and-history-equally-ignored/#comment-57806 Mon, 06 Nov 2006 10:48:48 +0000 http://www.thesharpener.net/2006/11/01/science-and-history-equally-ignored/#comment-57806 What is just as important about the university funding review is that it looks to me like it will further emphasise the importance of external funding for universities, and we all know how many companies focus on short term immediate usefulness. I do wonder how much in the last 30 years companies have gotten used to using universities as cheap R&D, not to mention benefiting from gvt subsidies for universities.

We need to open it up to a wider debate as well- if university funding depends upon research, why bother teaching? I am slowly moving towards the idea that teaching and research are not quite as linked as we have been treating them this past century or two. What I learnt at university (Chemistry degree) was not research related until my 4th year project, and even then it was a small project. Meanwhile the real work was done by PhD students and post-docs.
And theres also the issue of universities getting money per bums on seats and hence maximising income by cutting real stuf flike labwork. I had a temporary job in a place, working under someone who had graduated from the same university 25 years earlier. When I fouled up big time, as he was telling me off, he pointed out how he had had twice as much laboratory time as I had, and gotten to use many of the instruments himself, and as a result he was much more hands on oriented.
So, I say more hands on work, and the funding necessary to do it.

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By: Chris Williams http://sharpener.johnband.org/2006/11/science-and-history-equally-ignored/#comment-57802 Sun, 05 Nov 2006 23:26:15 +0000 http://www.thesharpener.net/2006/11/01/science-and-history-equally-ignored/#comment-57802 A historian writes:

Yeah but for fuck’s sake Clive, read _England and the Aeroplane_. You’ve got your head screwed on in a number of important ways – it’s a shame that you’re so horrendously wrong about this issue. Hell, I’ll lend you my copy if necessary.

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By: Nosemonkey http://sharpener.johnband.org/2006/11/science-and-history-equally-ignored/#comment-57796 Sun, 05 Nov 2006 16:46:20 +0000 http://www.thesharpener.net/2006/11/01/science-and-history-equally-ignored/#comment-57796 Ooooh! Miaow! THAT put me in my place…

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By: dearieme http://sharpener.johnband.org/2006/11/science-and-history-equally-ignored/#comment-57793 Sun, 05 Nov 2006 16:28:03 +0000 http://www.thesharpener.net/2006/11/01/science-and-history-equally-ignored/#comment-57793 Some of us learn stuff after we leave school.

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By: Nosemonkey http://sharpener.johnband.org/2006/11/science-and-history-equally-ignored/#comment-57780 Fri, 03 Nov 2006 23:57:39 +0000 http://www.thesharpener.net/2006/11/01/science-and-history-equally-ignored/#comment-57780 Well, erm, yes. Didn’t my “physics only to GCSE level” mentioned in the third comment make that apparent enough?

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By: dearieme http://sharpener.johnband.org/2006/11/science-and-history-equally-ignored/#comment-57779 Fri, 03 Nov 2006 22:52:03 +0000 http://www.thesharpener.net/2006/11/01/science-and-history-equally-ignored/#comment-57779 My point is simply that your knowledge of science and technology would seem to be rather thin.

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By: Nosemonkey http://sharpener.johnband.org/2006/11/science-and-history-equally-ignored/#comment-57778 Fri, 03 Nov 2006 18:19:20 +0000 http://www.thesharpener.net/2006/11/01/science-and-history-equally-ignored/#comment-57778 Dearieme – sorry, I’m trying very hard to work out what your point is. First you disputed the claimed lack of government funding for scientific/technological research, now you’re arguing (as I did in the original post) that the government didn’t fund scientific/technological research.

By all means argue that government funding wouldn’t be a benefit to research efforts (although you’d be hard pushed to find many British examples of direct governmental funding for long-term research full-stop, at least not since the mid-19th century), but make up your mind what you’re arguing for/against, old chap – it’s getting very confusing.

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By: dearieme http://sharpener.johnband.org/2006/11/science-and-history-equally-ignored/#comment-57777 Fri, 03 Nov 2006 17:52:48 +0000 http://www.thesharpener.net/2006/11/01/science-and-history-equally-ignored/#comment-57777 And as for its engine: “Designed by Rolls-Royce as a private-venture, the Merlin was able to take advantage of the new 100 octane fuel developed in the U.S.A.”. Where was the british govt in that?

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