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Comments on: flagging up the identity crisis http://sharpener.johnband.org/2006/06/flagging-up-the-identity-crisis/ Trying to make a point Fri, 25 Jan 2008 12:21:35 +0000 hourly 1 By: Kirsty http://sharpener.johnband.org/2006/06/flagging-up-the-identity-crisis/#comment-16777 Sat, 01 Jul 2006 03:41:32 +0000 http://www.thesharpener.net/2006/06/09/flagging-up-the-identity-crisis/#comment-16777 Sam wrote: “Wales has never had nation status”

Sam, go into a pub in the middle of Wales and say that, and see what sort of reception you get! I think you’ll find that the Welsh have pretty strong views on whether they’re a nation or not.

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By: Merrick http://sharpener.johnband.org/2006/06/flagging-up-the-identity-crisis/#comment-16697 Thu, 29 Jun 2006 08:48:49 +0000 http://www.thesharpener.net/2006/06/09/flagging-up-the-identity-crisis/#comment-16697 Kheng,

I beg to disagree. It is probably the Stars and Stripes which raises ire. Most non-Brits treat the Union Jack with indifference.

There’s more than one flag that can rise ire.

From Wales to Zimbabwe you can find people who see it as an emblem of the repression of their ancestors.

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By: kheng http://sharpener.johnband.org/2006/06/flagging-up-the-identity-crisis/#comment-16399 Fri, 23 Jun 2006 20:39:32 +0000 http://www.thesharpener.net/2006/06/09/flagging-up-the-identity-crisis/#comment-16399 “you never see the Union Flag flying in Scotland”

Back from a holiday in Edinburgh. I saw Union Jacks everywhere. Most building would fly the Saltire and the Union Jack, and possibly the EU flag.

In Stirling, it was different. The only Union Jack was atop the Castle. Well, this is the place with the Wallace Monument.

Also, the statement:

“The Union Jack was invented at the time of our first forays of empire. It is the flag that flew over our worst excesses of imperialism. It is the symbol of that which brutalised and repressed millions, of all that was fought against by dozens of movements wanting self-determination. All around the world, it is a hackle-raiser.”

As a non-UK citizen, I beg to disagree. It is probably the Stars and Stripes which raises ire. Most non-Brits treat the Union Jack with indifference.

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By: Bondwoman http://sharpener.johnband.org/2006/06/flagging-up-the-identity-crisis/#comment-16312 Thu, 22 Jun 2006 17:26:16 +0000 http://www.thesharpener.net/2006/06/09/flagging-up-the-identity-crisis/#comment-16312 Did you see the interesting programme on the Union Jack on BBC last night?

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By: dearieme http://sharpener.johnband.org/2006/06/flagging-up-the-identity-crisis/#comment-16309 Thu, 22 Jun 2006 17:07:30 +0000 http://www.thesharpener.net/2006/06/09/flagging-up-the-identity-crisis/#comment-16309 “the English, Welsh and Scottish have never been under Irish occupation”: further to Pete’s point, chunks of England and Wales have been under Irish occupation too, but so long ago that the notoriously ill-educated English tend not to know it.

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By: Steve http://sharpener.johnband.org/2006/06/flagging-up-the-identity-crisis/#comment-16298 Thu, 22 Jun 2006 12:06:39 +0000 http://www.thesharpener.net/2006/06/09/flagging-up-the-identity-crisis/#comment-16298 Jonn, that comment from your Sri Lankan friend is interesting.

I have noticed that many Asians use the term ‘English’ to mean white people.

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By: Merrick http://sharpener.johnband.org/2006/06/flagging-up-the-identity-crisis/#comment-15610 Fri, 16 Jun 2006 18:51:22 +0000 http://www.thesharpener.net/2006/06/09/flagging-up-the-identity-crisis/#comment-15610 Blimpish’s use of ‘asymmetries’ is the best euphemism for domination and repression that I’ve ever heard.

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By: Merrick http://sharpener.johnband.org/2006/06/flagging-up-the-identity-crisis/#comment-15609 Fri, 16 Jun 2006 18:44:54 +0000 http://www.thesharpener.net/2006/06/09/flagging-up-the-identity-crisis/#comment-15609 This just in from the fine person I was visiting when I saw that Union Jack in Hadfield:

= = = = = = =

just thought i’d say, hadfield may well be pariochal, but steve pemberton (league of gentlemen blokey) puts it like this: “Royston Vasey is an amalgam of all horrible little northern towns that we knew from growing up in that region. It is actually a place called Hadfield in Derbyshire.”

also included for your delight, a couple of little known facts about Hadfield…

“Glossop people, being sophisticated, tell ‘Irish’ jokes about people from Hadfield. (As Irish people tell jokes about people from Cork. And Cork people tell jokes about Kerrymen.) Hadfilters tell jokes about people from Padfield. People from Padfield don’t tell jokes, they just pick plums.

Hadfield is said to have more pubs to the square mile (or is it per head of population?) even than Norwich.

Not to be confused with Hatfield, scene of rail disasters. Or Hayfield, a charming Derbyshire village near Glossop. Or Padfield, a village near Hadfield.”

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By: Jonn http://sharpener.johnband.org/2006/06/flagging-up-the-identity-crisis/#comment-15118 Tue, 13 Jun 2006 10:28:00 +0000 http://www.thesharpener.net/2006/06/09/flagging-up-the-identity-crisis/#comment-15118 Great piece.

Oddly enough, a while back I found myself at a party in Brussels where I was the only English guy in the room. The two friends I travelled over from London with – neither of whom were from WASP-ish families – described themselves as “British”; but one, whose parents are Sri Lankan, actually took offence at the suggestion that he might be “English.”

So – which identity has the racist overtones, and why?

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By: Blimpish http://sharpener.johnband.org/2006/06/flagging-up-the-identity-crisis/#comment-14994 Mon, 12 Jun 2006 08:27:55 +0000 http://www.thesharpener.net/2006/06/09/flagging-up-the-identity-crisis/#comment-14994 A good article, but I think you’re stronger (for the most part) on analysis than on action – you fall into the same trap as the union-builders, of trying to impose a rationalistic frame on the symbols of national identity. The fact that English people are comfortable with both flags, and the fact that we sing the UK anthem, might create asymmetries, but so what?

I’d also add – although this is a much bigger argument – that any attempt to find an inclusive identity for a distinct group will ultimately fail. Even if you found such an identity (North West European Archipelago – oh, and St George’s cross should go, as it’s a cross and so biased towards Christian culture), and could then establish it (highly doubtful), over the generations it would simply become a new point of distinction between ‘us’ and ‘them’. Less rich and meaningful than the traditional symbols, but just as exclusive in the end. National identity is, as such, exclusive.

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