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Comments on: The decline of Christianity in Britain http://sharpener.johnband.org/2005/10/the-decline-of-christianity-in-britain/ Trying to make a point Fri, 25 Jan 2008 12:21:35 +0000 hourly 1 By: home equity line of credit http://sharpener.johnband.org/2005/10/the-decline-of-christianity-in-britain/#comment-24322 Sat, 29 Jul 2006 06:43:16 +0000 http://www.thesharpener.net/?p=156#comment-24322 home equity line of credit http://homeequitylineofcredit.blogs-de-voyage.fr

]]> By: paul http://sharpener.johnband.org/2005/10/the-decline-of-christianity-in-britain/#comment-3527 Mon, 24 Oct 2005 22:19:21 +0000 http://www.thesharpener.net/?p=156#comment-3527 I Feel muslims are tryiny to invade europe by imigration and reproduction and conversion to change for them i think the rich countries should help the poor countries so there is less immigrarion. i also feel that in the sixties people wanted to rebel agaisnt something they chose their religion as some 50’s still go to church.
*Personaly* i feel that multicutrual socictys don’t work.

]]> By: George Carty http://sharpener.johnband.org/2005/10/the-decline-of-christianity-in-britain/#comment-3503 Fri, 21 Oct 2005 15:56:50 +0000 http://www.thesharpener.net/?p=156#comment-3503

In fact, democracy his a pretty good record of defending itself, both by being a seductive belief system, and militarily.

According to the Islamophobes, Muslims plan to take over Europe not by invasion, but by immigration, reproduction and conversion (historically almost no Muslims genuinely abandon Islam, even under pain of death).

Democracies have few compunctions about killing invaders who come in shooting, but find it very difficult to bring themselves to kill unarmed civilians within their territory – this was the point alluded to by Camp of the Saints.

I think Europeans need to grow up, Muslims are not preventing them from having babies.

DrM, I chopped the “going to Church” bit because the Christian argument is generally that the lack of babies is directly caused by abandonment of the Church. I suspect the rightwingers are reluctant to mention that it was the corporate greed for cheap labour which brought women into the workforce in the first place (working women have fewer children than housewives due to time pressures).

The same greed for cheap labour is also the reason for massive immigration in the West (including Muslim immigration). This is especially clear as far as illegal immigration is concerned – employers pay illegal immigrants less than the minimum wage and the immigrants, having no right to be in the country in the first place, dare not complain to the authorities. Read Laura Poyneer’s (aka al-Muhajabah’s) “Exploitation Game”…

]]> By: DrM http://sharpener.johnband.org/2005/10/the-decline-of-christianity-in-britain/#comment-3459 Wed, 19 Oct 2005 20:52:45 +0000 http://www.thesharpener.net/?p=156#comment-3459 I think Europeans need to grow up, Muslims are not preventing them from going to Church or having babies.
You’re not going to assimilate anybody by forcibly banning articles of clothing etc, it will have the opposite effect of creating resentment and politisizing the young early. The Spanish example of an alliance of civilizations is the way to go. Respect, through dialogue and understanding.

]]> By: Phil Hunt http://sharpener.johnband.org/2005/10/the-decline-of-christianity-in-britain/#comment-3389 Wed, 12 Oct 2005 13:52:26 +0000 http://www.thesharpener.net/?p=156#comment-3389 George Carty: To me, today’s far rightists say “Democracy cannot defend itself against Islam”, just as the classic fascists said “Democracy cannot defend itself against Communism”.

In fact, democracy his a pretty good record of defending itself, both by being a seductive belief system, and militarily.

]]> By: George Carty http://sharpener.johnband.org/2005/10/the-decline-of-christianity-in-britain/#comment-3382 Wed, 12 Oct 2005 09:30:20 +0000 http://www.thesharpener.net/?p=156#comment-3382 When rightwingers claim that immigration must be severely curbed to minimize the infection of Europe by Islam, are they not actually admitting that they believe Islam is a belief system superior to Western liberal democracy?

During most of the time when Islamic civilization was strong, the West was ruled with an iron fist by the Catholic Church. Jews in Christian countries generally suffered worse persecution than those in Muslim lands, and Muslims were barred from the West completely (note Spanish ethnic cleansing of Muslims, for example). By the time Western civilization adopted liberal democracy, Islamic civilization was virtually a dead duck.

To me, today’s far rightists say “Democracy cannot defend itself against Islam”, just as the classic fascists said “Democracy cannot defend itself against Communism”.

]]> By: Phil Hunt http://sharpener.johnband.org/2005/10/the-decline-of-christianity-in-britain/#comment-3376 Wed, 12 Oct 2005 00:32:12 +0000 http://www.thesharpener.net/?p=156#comment-3376 Alex: After living in the US for decades and being back in Europe for a while, I found the islamification of this continent as the main issue for the next fifty years at least.

Perhaps. I really doubt if there will be anything like an “Islamification” in Europe, because the backlash would be too strong. It’s more likely, in my opinion, that Europeans would respond the same way they did the last time they decided to get rid of an unwanted religious minority — although I don’t think a repeat of the Nazis will happen again.

I feel that tolerance is more for fear of muslim terrorists for European governments then anything else.

Hardly. Europe’s been steadily getting more tolerant for 300 years. Remember Voltaire?

Historically Europe has always tried to appease instead of confronting.

We are talking about the same Europe, aren’t we? You know, the one that conquered most of the world, and depopulated entire continents?

UK-Germany and France try to … admit Turkey, all to appease Islam.

The way I see it the admission of Turkey is about cleaving rational Muslims (such as Erdogan) from looneys (such as bin Laden). Turkey has wanted to become more European since Ataturk, and they as making genuine reforms so I think they will get there. Also, in the event of another war in the Middle East, if Turkey is in the EU, Europe will have an advance base for operations (plus the Turkish army is quite big).

It seems to me that immigrants getting to america are more willing to embrace the american dream and absorb the american model, that after all has produced for more then hundred years the best economic performance in the world. In Europe cities have been converted in copies of asian neighborhoods , not integrated and harboring hostility against the host country with deadly results.

There’s an element of truth here. How to get communities more integrated, I don’t know. Probably it would help to insist that people in immigrant communities spoke the language of the host country. Disallowing foreign spouses unless they were well educated of knew the language might also help.

]]> By: Phil Hunt http://sharpener.johnband.org/2005/10/the-decline-of-christianity-in-britain/#comment-3375 Wed, 12 Oct 2005 00:18:03 +0000 http://www.thesharpener.net/?p=156#comment-3375 Jim: There’s a plethora sources of death and injury that are much more likely to hit you than terrorism. Terrorism, and fear of it, are fashionable now (and politically useful to governments) but to make the issue THE central issue for public policy is plain crazy and dangerous.

Indeed so.

]]> By: Jim Birch http://sharpener.johnband.org/2005/10/the-decline-of-christianity-in-britain/#comment-3366 Tue, 11 Oct 2005 03:05:44 +0000 http://www.thesharpener.net/?p=156#comment-3366 There’s plenty of hostility in American cities but is ok because it’s home grown. There’s a plethora sources of death and injury that are much more likely to hit you than terrorism. Terrorism, and fear of it, are fashionable now (and politically useful to governments) but to make the issue THE central issue for public policy is plain crazy and dangerous.

]]> By: alex jones http://sharpener.johnband.org/2005/10/the-decline-of-christianity-in-britain/#comment-3364 Mon, 10 Oct 2005 21:52:11 +0000 http://www.thesharpener.net/?p=156#comment-3364 After living in the US for decades and being back in Europe for a while, I found the islamification of this continent as the main issue for the next fifty years at least. I feel that tolerance is more for fear of muslim terrorists for European governments then anything else. Historically Europe has always
tried to appease instead of confronting. At the time of Arab pirates europe was paying in gold to protect from piracy of North Africa, and today the EU pays
millions to the Palestinians to keep them quiet, the UK-Germany and France try to make a deal with Iran and admit Turkey, all to appease Islam. Well reality is that no matter what Europe does the ideology of violence to solve problems won’t be stopped. The problem is that diluting European societies with a failed ideology will undoubtedly weaken
the social fiber of a continent that has been the cradle of modern societies. It seems to me that immigrants getting to america are more willing to embrace the american dream and absorb the american model, that after all has produced for more then hundred years the best economic performance in the world.
In euorope cities have been converted in copies of asian neighborhoods , not integrated and harboring hostility against the host country with deadly results. If these masses just immigrate to get only the rewards of the present western economic prosperity and keep their traditional behaviors ,
failure is guaranteed ; because their way of life was a failure in the first place and produced systems which were not able to produce innovation, and couldn’t provide for the population. The outcome for europe with the present political formula is gloomy at best!

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