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Comments on: Ars Linguae/Ars Politica http://sharpener.johnband.org/2005/06/ars-linguaears-politica/ Trying to make a point Fri, 25 Jan 2008 12:21:35 +0000 hourly 1 By: Philosophers’ Carnival :: Philosophers’ Carnival XVI :: July :: 2005 http://sharpener.johnband.org/2005/06/ars-linguaears-politica/#comment-20996 Tue, 18 Jul 2006 04:10:10 +0000 http://www.thesharpener.net/?p=88#comment-20996 […] The Sharpener: http://www.thesharpener.net/?p=88 […]

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By: Katie http://sharpener.johnband.org/2005/06/ars-linguaears-politica/#comment-754 Thu, 23 Jun 2005 10:21:15 +0000 http://www.thesharpener.net/?p=88#comment-754 %22The Future Dictionary of America" </a>* written by a bunch of hip young leftie writers, edited at awesome, awesome McSweeneys, and cover art by the superlative Chris Ware. Whether you agree with their world view or not, it is very amusing. It projects what words will have appeared in English in the future, not a precise date, more something between 2010 and 2070. All the proceeds are donated to MoveOn though, which is surely some kind of statement on the inextricability of language and political action. *Of course, I don't actually <strong>own</strong> a copy, I just lurk in the back of WH Smiths (yes, there's one in Paris) and thumb through their copy, giggling maniacally, like an underage pervert behind the red velvet curtain in the local video shop. ]]> Actually, if we’re talking about political language, I would like to recommend a book, called “The Future Dictionary of America” * written by a bunch of hip young leftie writers, edited at awesome, awesome McSweeneys, and cover art by the superlative Chris Ware.

Whether you agree with their world view or not, it is very amusing. It projects what words will have appeared in English in the future, not a precise date, more something between 2010 and 2070. All the proceeds are donated to MoveOn though, which is surely some kind of statement on the inextricability of language and political action.

*Of course, I don’t actually own a copy, I just lurk in the back of WH Smiths (yes, there’s one in Paris) and thumb through their copy, giggling maniacally, like an underage pervert behind the red velvet curtain in the local video shop.

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By: Phil E http://sharpener.johnband.org/2005/06/ars-linguaears-politica/#comment-751 Wed, 22 Jun 2005 22:38:19 +0000 http://www.thesharpener.net/?p=88#comment-751 I’ve been wondering that too, (why Brits aren’t more worked up about it)

The Downing Street Memo? I think the main reason is that the election’s over. Some equally damning stuff came out in the run-up to the election & got a lot of people very worked up indeed. But we’ve made the point now (i.e. Labour’s got a much smaller majority) and the government’s listened and learnt (i.e. the majority’s still big enough for them to ignore us completely), so we’ve wound up Moving On and Drawing A Line. Unfortunately.

Incidentally, “fixed around the policy” seems pretty clear to me – but then, I’m English. I’d paraphrase as ‘rigged/doctored/massaged to fit the policy’.

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By: KathyF http://sharpener.johnband.org/2005/06/ars-linguaears-politica/#comment-750 Wed, 22 Jun 2005 21:44:45 +0000 http://www.thesharpener.net/?p=88#comment-750 I’ve been wondering that too, (why Brits aren’t more worked up about it) but on the other hand, people here are more worked up about Africa. Most Americans still think it’s one country.

Maybe there’s only one working-up allowed at a time.

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By: Monjo http://sharpener.johnband.org/2005/06/ars-linguaears-politica/#comment-747 Wed, 22 Jun 2005 13:21:50 +0000 http://www.thesharpener.net/?p=88#comment-747 So there’s a Katie, a KathyF and a Katherine all in one thread, no wonder there’s great discourse.

“Discourse is great.”, said the Caribbean man.
“And so is diss one.”, replied his wife tucking into her roast duck.

Katie/Phil: Greek/Latin. It was not just the Greek language that survived but also a distinct European divide between Orthodox and Catholic Christianity. Whilst Western European languages use the Latin alphabet, the actual language never spread as it was essentially reserved for the Church. Which is why Latin is about as dead as the dodo.

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By: Katie http://sharpener.johnband.org/2005/06/ars-linguaears-politica/#comment-746 Wed, 22 Jun 2005 07:30:02 +0000 http://www.thesharpener.net/?p=88#comment-746 Phil – Like the New Yorkers and Bostonians imitating the British accent, could it be because, despite kicking their butt, the Romans continued to have an (imaginary) chip on their shoulder about how culturally superior the Greeks were. A British accent still takes you far in American society. Maybe the ability to speak Greek was still considered “classy”? I am just guessing though.

Kathyf – DSM, as my friends in the States call it, has indeed caused a flap in America, but also in the British community over there. I know the office of the house judiciary committee had a ton of phone calls from Brits in the States saying, ‘yeah “fixed around” in British english, we’d call that “sexed up.”‘ Justin over at Chicken Yoghurt is quite rightly asking why Brits in Britain aren’t more worked up about it. Low expectations of our leaders (and of ourselves) to blame.

I have been asked to caveat that Hilary’s nomination will be difficult, because the Dem party knows she is the anti-christ to the GOP, and the centrists that nominated Kerry still hold sway, insisting that moving to the centre, not the left, is the key to winning in 2008. I knew this (and disagree), but the article was quite long enough already and one sentence is better than three.

I have also been told that I could have said the whole thing in one paragraph if I had a good editor. To that I say, according to Tim’s theory I could have said it in two sentences. So here goes:

1) Language defines who we are
2) Until someone decides to use it to manipulate you. And then they define who you are.

But then, I’m a blogger and a frightful egomaniac. “Bleeding edge of vanity publishing” and all that.

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By: Phil Hunt http://sharpener.johnband.org/2005/06/ars-linguaears-politica/#comment-745 Tue, 21 Jun 2005 21:04:39 +0000 http://www.thesharpener.net/?p=88#comment-745 Katherine, regarding your point about Latin: it became the day-to-day language in the western half of the Empire, but in the east it didn’t rreplace Greek, which persists to this day. I wonder why not?

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By: KathyF http://sharpener.johnband.org/2005/06/ars-linguaears-politica/#comment-744 Tue, 21 Jun 2005 20:31:33 +0000 http://www.thesharpener.net/?p=88#comment-744 Wow, they should let women blog here more often. It really improves the discourse.

While I’ve got an actual linguist on the line, what’s your take on the flap over the meaning of the word “fixed” in the Downing Street Memo? I just read that on a MSNBC special on the memo yet another apologist for the administration is maintaining the Brits interpret it differently, as did Condi Rice the other day. This is rapidly becoming the party line. Any thoughts?

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By: Katie http://sharpener.johnband.org/2005/06/ars-linguaears-politica/#comment-741 Tue, 21 Jun 2005 17:28:13 +0000 http://www.thesharpener.net/?p=88#comment-741 David – The lager louts are British too. Any pretense otherwise is pure snobbery. I don’t like the lager louts, I complain constantly about the lager louts, hell, I partly live abroad because of the society the lager louts have made, but they’re British too, and it’s still my country, and they’re still my compatriots. Some of my best friends are lager louts.

Jarndyce – I’m curious about question 4…What *are* we supposed to do?

Nosemonkey – Yes, I’ve been reading every review of that work and it is on the Christmas list. I am in a position where I have to wait for books to make it to the library I am afraid.

Historical linguistics is, as you say, apeshit, not nice little chronological, systematic, trees. The history of language is like a tiny room full of really messed up teenagers, with all the different bits growing at different rates and some bits being more pronounced and well, hairy, than others. But from where we’re looking, at the latest stages of the growing process, all the painful, awkward, messy stages look like like they were destined to become the relatively normal people standing in front of you today, rich and varied and identifiable. Of course, they’re about to change all over again, but once they have we’ll see why and how, although we could never have predicted it before. Bit like, ooh, wait, what’s that word, tip of my tongue? evolution?

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By: dearieme http://sharpener.johnband.org/2005/06/ars-linguaears-politica/#comment-739 Tue, 21 Jun 2005 16:53:49 +0000 http://www.thesharpener.net/?p=88#comment-739 “The origins of our Parliament were in the early Middle Ages. In 1215 the great barons forced rights from a tyrannical King John”. A bit of confusion here. The oldest continuing parliament in these islands (but outside the UK) is that of the Isle of Man, I’d guess. The first gathering of a King’s advisers (in these islands) actually called “Parliament” was Scottish, not English. The great barons referred to were English barons, which means that they were all French (in 1215). Do such intricacies get explained to our new citizens or is it all at this Primary-school-England-only level of muddle?

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