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Comments on: PR and its discontents http://sharpener.johnband.org/2005/05/pr-and-its-discontents/ Trying to make a point Fri, 25 Jan 2008 12:21:35 +0000 hourly 1 By: The Sharpener » Blog Archive » FPTP is ugly http://sharpener.johnband.org/2005/05/pr-and-its-discontents/#comment-49167 Tue, 17 Oct 2006 15:37:57 +0000 http://www.thesharpener.net/?p=24#comment-49167 […] We’re shafted several times over by our first-past-the-post electoral system. Let me count the ways: it’s unrepresentative, it occludes choice, it wastes a majority of votes, it under-represents women (with interesting second-order effects on corruption). It gave us Tony bloody Blair. […]

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By: george http://sharpener.johnband.org/2005/05/pr-and-its-discontents/#comment-20486 Sat, 15 Jul 2006 14:04:56 +0000 http://www.thesharpener.net/?p=24#comment-20486 Very gooood project.

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By: The Sharpener » New Labour’s double bluff: actually quite socialist after all http://sharpener.johnband.org/2005/05/pr-and-its-discontents/#comment-3962 Fri, 25 Nov 2005 09:46:44 +0000 http://www.thesharpener.net/?p=24#comment-3962 […] red gloop with an oddly-familiar aftertaste that is the chosen brand of the most important 21 per cent of people ever to have graced Great Britain is an odd concoction. Decried for placing false hope in […]

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By: atopian.org http://sharpener.johnband.org/2005/05/pr-and-its-discontents/#comment-3124 Mon, 12 Sep 2005 15:40:11 +0000 http://www.thesharpener.net/?p=24#comment-3124 Still way too busy

I’m still way under with work, so I’m going to yet again provide a few nice links to some other decent blogging/articles going on:
Election Result:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/4535829.stm (best line: “Middle class voters who are often str…

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By: The Sharpener » Getting specific on PR http://sharpener.johnband.org/2005/05/pr-and-its-discontents/#comment-370 Thu, 19 May 2005 15:53:17 +0000 http://www.thesharpener.net/?p=24#comment-370 […] r

Getting specific on PR

Judging by the reaction to previous posts here at The Sharpener, you, dear readers, cannot get enough of this electoral reform stuff. So, […]

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By: Tim B http://sharpener.johnband.org/2005/05/pr-and-its-discontents/#comment-361 Thu, 19 May 2005 12:05:54 +0000 http://www.thesharpener.net/?p=24#comment-361 Why not have the following:

Up to every 5 years (i.e. as at present) an election for the Commons, with 400-500 larger seats on FPTP, with the difference made up by PR on a list basis (like the London Assembly for example, which seems to have worked pretty well).

My proposal for the Lords is as follows…

Every 5 years (fixed) elect half the House of Lords. Each candidate MUST stand on an Independent ticket; if they are the member of a party they must leave the party. They stand for one term only, of 10 years. You have the 5-yearly, half-House elections to ensure that short-term trends don’t overly affect the make-up of the House. Elections would be entirely by PR on a list basis. Lords would have no tie to a particular geographical constituency.
You would also include Bishops, Rabbis, Imams, etc in the Lords, in roughly the same proportions as those religions are represented nationally, and you would also include all Law Lords as at present. There would be no hereditary peers, except for the Queen, who I understand is allowed to sit in the Lords; I would also propose including the heir to the throne.
There would be no political nominees like we have at present, I think that system is demonstrably open to abuse and a bit of a failure democratically.

Finally I would propose that the minimum age for standing as a candidate for the Lords should be high, say 40 or even 50. The compensation should be considerable, say £100k, and outside interests should be restricted. This should give us a) independence and b) experience.

MPs would have no power to remove or add Lords; only other Lords should be able to sack Lords if they misbehave / don’t turn up. There would be no bi-elections.

Just my tuppence-worth; I would be interested to read what people make of this proposal, as I’ve thought it through over some time!

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By: Alex http://sharpener.johnband.org/2005/05/pr-and-its-discontents/#comment-356 Thu, 19 May 2005 09:19:22 +0000 http://www.thesharpener.net/?p=24#comment-356 At the risk of sounding awfully “Third Way” isn’t there a medium between the two?

By electing MPs on a FPTP system, we preserve what is probably the most significant advantage of FPTP over PR, that the individual voter feels that there is a single MP accountable to him (and vice versa) and whom he can approach with various grievances.

By electing members of the House of Lords on a regional-PR basis, the legislative function of Parliament can be achieved more proportionately.

The irreducible problem is that Parliament has two functions: representative and legislative, whereby “representative” I mean that he can represent the concerns of his constituents to Parliament. The dilemma is that FPTP has a stronger element of the former, whilst PR has an arguably “fairer” version of the latter. PR-advocates should note how few people can name their MEP (who are elected regionally by a quasi-PR system). Would it not therefore be logical to decouple the two and allow the two separate Houses to be the primary locus of the two distinct functions?

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By: Neil Craig http://sharpener.johnband.org/2005/05/pr-and-its-discontents/#comment-243 Sun, 15 May 2005 19:15:53 +0000 http://www.thesharpener.net/?p=24#comment-243 A couple of other points against PR:

The one case where PR doesn’t squeeze small parties is where they are geographically located. Two examples – There was considerable animosity in Scotland under Thatcher for England apparently continuously enforcing Toryism on Scotland (in fact Thatcher never got above 42%) & the reverse is now appearing in England. When Abraham Lincoln was elected it was by achieving an FTPT victory in most northen states & virtually no votes in the south (I believe he got 40% overall). The dangers of division this produces are obvious.

Another problem is that, because the system is so dependent on very small swings it would be quite possible to have gone from a market driven Thatcherite majority to a “nationalise the commanding heights” Foot government (he got as few vote as Blair just got) or indeed in present circumstances a 3 way choice, all of them with absolute power & deeply unpopular. a certain amount of continuity of policy is no bad thing.

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By: Jarndyce http://sharpener.johnband.org/2005/05/pr-and-its-discontents/#comment-190 Thu, 12 May 2005 13:56:25 +0000 http://www.thesharpener.net/?p=24#comment-190 Hey, Jack, how many straw men can you fit in one Guardian article? I guess about the same number it takes to change a light bulb. I thought your tirade about the Israeli system was particularly relevant, given that just about everyone is suggesting that as a suitable alternative. Like, erm,…, well, like everyone. I thought your manifesto gag was the best, though: I seem to recall you promising a referendum on PR in your 1997 manifesto? Maybe I’m mistaken. The thing is, Jack, if it’s strong government you really want above anything else, why bother with voting at all? Technocratic dictatorship is so much better at establishing a firm contract with the people.

S2: on the 5% thing – yes, if we do end up with a system that needs a threshold we should have one. I doubt we’d go that route, though. And, no, Congressional districts get reapportioned all the time, and the committees that do the work are very politicised. In fact, the reapportionment has got to such a stage now that a huge chunk of House seats are basically unwinnable by one party. At the last House elections about a fifth weren’t even contested by the other.

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By: Make My Vote Count http://sharpener.johnband.org/2005/05/pr-and-its-discontents/#comment-189 Thu, 12 May 2005 13:23:32 +0000 http://www.thesharpener.net/?p=24#comment-189 The hottest issue in the country

I’ve been wanting to link to Anatole Kaletsky for ages now, on account of him being possibly the most sound-minded columnist in the country. Given that he’s an economist, however, his insight is usually restricted to more businesslike matters than…

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